Noticed on Ebay
02-10-2006 | 02:01 PM
#251
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Noticed on Ebay
I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
Dave
"Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> > Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> > carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> > http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
>
> This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
Dave
"Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> > Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> > carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> > http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
>
> This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
>
> --
> Simon
> "I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
02-10-2006 | 02:36 PM
#252
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Noticed on Ebay
Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
Jerry
Dave Milne wrote:
> I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
> proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
>
> Dave
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
>>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
>>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
>>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
>>
>>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
>>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
>>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
>>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
>>
>>--
>>Simon
>>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
Jerry
Dave Milne wrote:
> I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
> proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
>
> Dave
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
>>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
>>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
>>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
>>
>>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
>>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
>>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
>>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
>>
>>--
>>Simon
>>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
02-10-2006 | 02:36 PM
#253
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Noticed on Ebay
Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
Jerry
Dave Milne wrote:
> I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
> proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
>
> Dave
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
>>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
>>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
>>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
>>
>>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
>>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
>>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
>>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
>>
>>--
>>Simon
>>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
Jerry
Dave Milne wrote:
> I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
> proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
>
> Dave
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
>>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
>>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
>>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
>>
>>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
>>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
>>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
>>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
>>
>>--
>>Simon
>>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
02-10-2006 | 02:36 PM
#254
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Noticed on Ebay
Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
Jerry
Dave Milne wrote:
> I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
> proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
>
> Dave
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
>>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
>>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
>>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
>>
>>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
>>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
>>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
>>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
>>
>>--
>>Simon
>>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
Jerry
Dave Milne wrote:
> I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
> proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
>
> Dave
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
>>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
>>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
>>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
>>
>>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
>>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
>>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
>>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
>>
>>--
>>Simon
>>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
02-10-2006 | 02:36 PM
#255
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Noticed on Ebay
Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
Jerry
Dave Milne wrote:
> I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
> proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
>
> Dave
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
>>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
>>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
>>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
>>
>>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
>>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
>>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
>>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
>>
>>--
>>Simon
>>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
Jerry
Dave Milne wrote:
> I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
> proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
>
> Dave
>
> "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
>
>>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
>>
>>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
>>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
>>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
>>
>>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
>>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
>>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
>>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
>>
>>--
>>Simon
>>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
>
>
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
02-10-2006 | 04:12 PM
#256
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Noticed on Ebay
Hi Jerry,
No doubt about the fact that box frames are stronger. LandRovers were
shipped with a simple ornery paint covering for their box chassis, and they
rusted like crazy. The big Austin my Dad had, came with a C channel chassis
and that never rusted so badly for the simple reason that dirt didn't
collect in it and if it did, it was easy to hose it off. The stiffness came
at a price - it was massively heavy though - bigger than the chassis of the
CJ and the Grand Wagoneer (which has rather boat-like handling at the best
of times).
However, I'll accept that perhaps my experience is out of date in that hot
tub galvanising or whatever a box chassis would probably remove the problem
of crud collecting inside and rusting outwards. I don't agree with Bill that
a C channel rivetted chassis is a good thing on a SWB Jeep - the wheelbase
is so short that you are only going to get minimal improvements offroad and
is not worth putting up with the jelly-like handling on road.
Dave
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:LW5Hf.57165$V.31568@fed1read04...
> Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
> restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
> brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
> channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
> reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
> area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
> feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
> That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
> evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
> issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
> first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
> with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
> protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
> boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
> thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
>
> Jerry
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to
get
> > proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote
in
> > message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> >
> >>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> >>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> >>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
> >>
> >>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> >>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> >>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> >>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Simon
> >>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
No doubt about the fact that box frames are stronger. LandRovers were
shipped with a simple ornery paint covering for their box chassis, and they
rusted like crazy. The big Austin my Dad had, came with a C channel chassis
and that never rusted so badly for the simple reason that dirt didn't
collect in it and if it did, it was easy to hose it off. The stiffness came
at a price - it was massively heavy though - bigger than the chassis of the
CJ and the Grand Wagoneer (which has rather boat-like handling at the best
of times).
However, I'll accept that perhaps my experience is out of date in that hot
tub galvanising or whatever a box chassis would probably remove the problem
of crud collecting inside and rusting outwards. I don't agree with Bill that
a C channel rivetted chassis is a good thing on a SWB Jeep - the wheelbase
is so short that you are only going to get minimal improvements offroad and
is not worth putting up with the jelly-like handling on road.
Dave
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:LW5Hf.57165$V.31568@fed1read04...
> Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
> restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
> brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
> channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
> reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
> area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
> feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
> That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
> evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
> issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
> first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
> with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
> protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
> boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
> thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
>
> Jerry
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to
get
> > proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote
in
> > message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> >
> >>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> >>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> >>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
> >>
> >>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> >>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> >>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> >>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Simon
> >>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
02-10-2006 | 04:12 PM
#257
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Noticed on Ebay
Hi Jerry,
No doubt about the fact that box frames are stronger. LandRovers were
shipped with a simple ornery paint covering for their box chassis, and they
rusted like crazy. The big Austin my Dad had, came with a C channel chassis
and that never rusted so badly for the simple reason that dirt didn't
collect in it and if it did, it was easy to hose it off. The stiffness came
at a price - it was massively heavy though - bigger than the chassis of the
CJ and the Grand Wagoneer (which has rather boat-like handling at the best
of times).
However, I'll accept that perhaps my experience is out of date in that hot
tub galvanising or whatever a box chassis would probably remove the problem
of crud collecting inside and rusting outwards. I don't agree with Bill that
a C channel rivetted chassis is a good thing on a SWB Jeep - the wheelbase
is so short that you are only going to get minimal improvements offroad and
is not worth putting up with the jelly-like handling on road.
Dave
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:LW5Hf.57165$V.31568@fed1read04...
> Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
> restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
> brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
> channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
> reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
> area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
> feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
> That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
> evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
> issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
> first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
> with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
> protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
> boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
> thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
>
> Jerry
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to
get
> > proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote
in
> > message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> >
> >>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> >>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> >>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
> >>
> >>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> >>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> >>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> >>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Simon
> >>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
No doubt about the fact that box frames are stronger. LandRovers were
shipped with a simple ornery paint covering for their box chassis, and they
rusted like crazy. The big Austin my Dad had, came with a C channel chassis
and that never rusted so badly for the simple reason that dirt didn't
collect in it and if it did, it was easy to hose it off. The stiffness came
at a price - it was massively heavy though - bigger than the chassis of the
CJ and the Grand Wagoneer (which has rather boat-like handling at the best
of times).
However, I'll accept that perhaps my experience is out of date in that hot
tub galvanising or whatever a box chassis would probably remove the problem
of crud collecting inside and rusting outwards. I don't agree with Bill that
a C channel rivetted chassis is a good thing on a SWB Jeep - the wheelbase
is so short that you are only going to get minimal improvements offroad and
is not worth putting up with the jelly-like handling on road.
Dave
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:LW5Hf.57165$V.31568@fed1read04...
> Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
> restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
> brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
> channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
> reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
> area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
> feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
> That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
> evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
> issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
> first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
> with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
> protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
> boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
> thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
>
> Jerry
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to
get
> > proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote
in
> > message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> >
> >>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> >>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> >>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
> >>
> >>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> >>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> >>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> >>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Simon
> >>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
02-10-2006 | 04:12 PM
#258
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Noticed on Ebay
Hi Jerry,
No doubt about the fact that box frames are stronger. LandRovers were
shipped with a simple ornery paint covering for their box chassis, and they
rusted like crazy. The big Austin my Dad had, came with a C channel chassis
and that never rusted so badly for the simple reason that dirt didn't
collect in it and if it did, it was easy to hose it off. The stiffness came
at a price - it was massively heavy though - bigger than the chassis of the
CJ and the Grand Wagoneer (which has rather boat-like handling at the best
of times).
However, I'll accept that perhaps my experience is out of date in that hot
tub galvanising or whatever a box chassis would probably remove the problem
of crud collecting inside and rusting outwards. I don't agree with Bill that
a C channel rivetted chassis is a good thing on a SWB Jeep - the wheelbase
is so short that you are only going to get minimal improvements offroad and
is not worth putting up with the jelly-like handling on road.
Dave
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:LW5Hf.57165$V.31568@fed1read04...
> Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
> restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
> brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
> channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
> reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
> area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
> feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
> That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
> evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
> issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
> first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
> with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
> protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
> boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
> thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
>
> Jerry
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to
get
> > proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote
in
> > message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> >
> >>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> >>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> >>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
> >>
> >>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> >>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> >>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> >>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Simon
> >>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
No doubt about the fact that box frames are stronger. LandRovers were
shipped with a simple ornery paint covering for their box chassis, and they
rusted like crazy. The big Austin my Dad had, came with a C channel chassis
and that never rusted so badly for the simple reason that dirt didn't
collect in it and if it did, it was easy to hose it off. The stiffness came
at a price - it was massively heavy though - bigger than the chassis of the
CJ and the Grand Wagoneer (which has rather boat-like handling at the best
of times).
However, I'll accept that perhaps my experience is out of date in that hot
tub galvanising or whatever a box chassis would probably remove the problem
of crud collecting inside and rusting outwards. I don't agree with Bill that
a C channel rivetted chassis is a good thing on a SWB Jeep - the wheelbase
is so short that you are only going to get minimal improvements offroad and
is not worth putting up with the jelly-like handling on road.
Dave
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:LW5Hf.57165$V.31568@fed1read04...
> Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
> restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
> brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
> channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
> reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
> area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
> feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
> That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
> evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
> issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
> first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
> with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
> protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
> boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
> thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
>
> Jerry
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to
get
> > proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote
in
> > message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> >
> >>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> >>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> >>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
> >>
> >>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> >>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> >>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> >>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Simon
> >>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
02-10-2006 | 04:12 PM
#259
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Noticed on Ebay
Hi Jerry,
No doubt about the fact that box frames are stronger. LandRovers were
shipped with a simple ornery paint covering for their box chassis, and they
rusted like crazy. The big Austin my Dad had, came with a C channel chassis
and that never rusted so badly for the simple reason that dirt didn't
collect in it and if it did, it was easy to hose it off. The stiffness came
at a price - it was massively heavy though - bigger than the chassis of the
CJ and the Grand Wagoneer (which has rather boat-like handling at the best
of times).
However, I'll accept that perhaps my experience is out of date in that hot
tub galvanising or whatever a box chassis would probably remove the problem
of crud collecting inside and rusting outwards. I don't agree with Bill that
a C channel rivetted chassis is a good thing on a SWB Jeep - the wheelbase
is so short that you are only going to get minimal improvements offroad and
is not worth putting up with the jelly-like handling on road.
Dave
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:LW5Hf.57165$V.31568@fed1read04...
> Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
> restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
> brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
> channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
> reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
> area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
> feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
> That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
> evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
> issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
> first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
> with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
> protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
> boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
> thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
>
> Jerry
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to
get
> > proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote
in
> > message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> >
> >>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> >>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> >>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
> >>
> >>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> >>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> >>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> >>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Simon
> >>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
No doubt about the fact that box frames are stronger. LandRovers were
shipped with a simple ornery paint covering for their box chassis, and they
rusted like crazy. The big Austin my Dad had, came with a C channel chassis
and that never rusted so badly for the simple reason that dirt didn't
collect in it and if it did, it was easy to hose it off. The stiffness came
at a price - it was massively heavy though - bigger than the chassis of the
CJ and the Grand Wagoneer (which has rather boat-like handling at the best
of times).
However, I'll accept that perhaps my experience is out of date in that hot
tub galvanising or whatever a box chassis would probably remove the problem
of crud collecting inside and rusting outwards. I don't agree with Bill that
a C channel rivetted chassis is a good thing on a SWB Jeep - the wheelbase
is so short that you are only going to get minimal improvements offroad and
is not worth putting up with the jelly-like handling on road.
Dave
"Jerry Bransford" <jerrypb@***.net> wrote in message
news:LW5Hf.57165$V.31568@fed1read04...
> Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
> restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
> brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
> channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
> reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
> area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
> feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
> That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
> evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
> issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
> first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
> with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
> protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
> boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
> thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
>
> Jerry
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to
get
> > proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote
in
> > message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> >
> >>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> >>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> >>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
> >>
> >>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> >>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> >>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> >>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Simon
> >>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
02-10-2006 | 04:52 PM
#260
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Noticed on Ebay
It took me 2 days of hosing to almost get all the crud out of my 86 CJ's
boxed frame. Needless to say the mud laying in the box had totally
rotted it out.
YJ's are the same up here, especially at the tail end.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
> Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
> restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
> brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
> channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
> reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
> area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
> feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
> That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
> evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
> issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
> first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
> with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
> protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
> boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
> thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
>
> Jerry
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
> > proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> > message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> >
> >>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> >>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> >>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
> >>
> >>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> >>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> >>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> >>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Simon
> >>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/
boxed frame. Needless to say the mud laying in the box had totally
rotted it out.
YJ's are the same up here, especially at the tail end.
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
> Dave, I helped a friend do a complete 100% frame-up three-year
> restoration on a '73 CJ5 he had owned and pampered since it was
> brand-new. Yes it has a C channel frame. Even though its frame is a C
> channel, the frame was still well rusted and needed lots of restorative
> reinforcement work and welding despite the fact it had never lived in an
> area where the roads were salted. I will never go along with anyone who
> feels a C channel frame will outlive a fully boxed frame due to rust.
> That's a purely theoretical argument in my book that isn't supported by
> evidence that boxed Jeep frames have any kind of a significant rust
> issue. Besides, a boxed frame is simply inherently much stronger... any
> first-year mechanical engineer knows that. And with entire vehicles
> with boxed frames like the TJ being dipped in rust preventive
> protectants, the argument that an open frame will hold up better than a
> boxed frame is not one I'll ever go along with. To me, the C channel
> thing is just an argument with a hidden agenda.
>
> Jerry
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> > I'm with Bill on C channel frame rails - I know they have to be heavy to get
> > proper stiffness but they don't rust out so badly as box section.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > "Simon Juncal" <SPAMERSSUCK@usefirstinitialandlastnameATerols.com > wrote in
> > message news:_6ednfxci-lKC3HenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@rcn.net...
> >
> >>L.W.(ßill) ------ III wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jim, haven't you ever gone to a drag race??????????!!!!!! Pro Stock is
> >>>carburated, gasoline, no nitrous, and run six second over two hundred:
> >>>http://www.allpar.com/racing/nhra/neon-nhra.html 1700 hp Pro Stock
> >>
> >>This is your problem Bill; you seem to think that because you can find
> >>some nich where older technology is still in use, that the older
> >>technology is inherently better than the newer. C channel fram rails,
> >>Diesel, leaf springs, and now you're touting PUSH RODS?!? LOL...
> >>
> >>--
> >>Simon
> >>"I may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain." -- Robert A. Heinlein
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.***.net/jerrypb/