Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Debate skills 101
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JimG wrote:
>
> I know... you can call it "Brake System that Anti-locks" or BSA
>
> (this is starting to read like the debate CRWLR and myself had about gear
> ratios... terminology differences)
>
> --
> JimG
> 80' CJ-7 258 CID
> 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
> D44 Rear, Dana 30 Front. SOA
> 4.56 Gears, LockRight F&R
> Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
> Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Debate skills 101
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/

JimG wrote:
>
> I know... you can call it "Brake System that Anti-locks" or BSA
>
> (this is starting to read like the debate CRWLR and myself had about gear
> ratios... terminology differences)
>
> --
> JimG
> 80' CJ-7 258 CID
> 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
> D44 Rear, Dana 30 Front. SOA
> 4.56 Gears, LockRight F&R
> Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
> Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

That's interesting to know. Next time we get a little snow, I'm going
to have someone watch me in an empty parking lot, and test this out. I
had always thought I was locking up all four wheels when I hit the
brakes pretty good in slippery conditions.


....One of these days I'll know enough to be knowledgeable and not just
enough to be dangerous ;-) ...

Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FFC393D.82EBADAD@sympatico.ca>...
> You are correct, I didn't really spit that out right...
>
> And yes, if your Jeep is newer than 1974 you do have rear anti lock
> brakes or anti skid brakes.
>
> They started putting a combination valve in them for safety reasons to
> prevent rear wheel lock up at speed so you can panic brake in a straight
> line and not slide sideways or do 360's.
>
> All newer cars have them. At first it was only utility vehicles,
> pickups and wagons that came with it.
>
> I remember my Dad getting his first wagon that had rear anti skid
> system.. He was really pleased with the difference in winter driving
> being able to brake straight without having to pump the crap out of the
> pedal.
>
> If you try it, you will find you can lock the front wheels up and the
> rears won't lock until you are almost at a complete stop. If you can
> lock your rear wheels at speed, you have a broken combination valve that
> should be changed ASAP.
>
> Mike
>
> Bob wrote:
> >
> > Ok, I think I see what you're trying to get at: the fact that since
> > the front and rear axle are locked together in 4wd pt, if you lock up
> > one set of wheels (front or back), you could effectively lock up all
> > four. I can see that as somewhat of a possible concern. However, it
> > seemed at first like you were implying the number of driving wheels
> > somehow had some relationship to how many wheels could be locked up in
> > a skid; moreover, that you can't lock up all four wheels in a skid
> > when in 2wd mode or in a 2wd vehicle. This, of course, is wrong (if
> > you disagree, please set me straight!); you can skid all four wheels
> > in ANY car (barring antilock braking or traction control system
> > equipped cars, about which I care not). I'm just saying, you can lock
> > up all four wheels and slide sideways into a ditch/do 360s in nothing
> > flat with a 2wd car just as easily as you can in a 4x4 PT vehicle.
> >
> > And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> > antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> > but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> > CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> > heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)
> >
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FFB1D34.F426DA64@sympatico.ca>...
> > > Not knowing how to drive in 4x4 is more likely.
> > >
> > > When you hit the brakes in a 2 wheel drive, you only lock up the front
> > > tires so you lose steering until you pump the pedal. Jeeps especially
> > > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
> > >
> > > If you are in 4x4 part time and hit the brakes, you lock up all 4 wheels
> > > and will slide sideways into the ditch or do 360's faster than you can
> > > blink.
> > >
> > > People don't know this until it is too late. I even know folks that
> > > have done exactly that and still after not known why it happened.
> > >
> > > Some folks also don't realize just because you can get going faster
> > > easier, you sure can't stop any faster.
> > >
> > > If you leave the room to maneuver and know what happens when you hit the
> > > brakes, then keeping up with the transport trucks is a good speed to
> > > drive in my opinion and around here that is between 55 and 65 mph.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

That's interesting to know. Next time we get a little snow, I'm going
to have someone watch me in an empty parking lot, and test this out. I
had always thought I was locking up all four wheels when I hit the
brakes pretty good in slippery conditions.


....One of these days I'll know enough to be knowledgeable and not just
enough to be dangerous ;-) ...

Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FFC393D.82EBADAD@sympatico.ca>...
> You are correct, I didn't really spit that out right...
>
> And yes, if your Jeep is newer than 1974 you do have rear anti lock
> brakes or anti skid brakes.
>
> They started putting a combination valve in them for safety reasons to
> prevent rear wheel lock up at speed so you can panic brake in a straight
> line and not slide sideways or do 360's.
>
> All newer cars have them. At first it was only utility vehicles,
> pickups and wagons that came with it.
>
> I remember my Dad getting his first wagon that had rear anti skid
> system.. He was really pleased with the difference in winter driving
> being able to brake straight without having to pump the crap out of the
> pedal.
>
> If you try it, you will find you can lock the front wheels up and the
> rears won't lock until you are almost at a complete stop. If you can
> lock your rear wheels at speed, you have a broken combination valve that
> should be changed ASAP.
>
> Mike
>
> Bob wrote:
> >
> > Ok, I think I see what you're trying to get at: the fact that since
> > the front and rear axle are locked together in 4wd pt, if you lock up
> > one set of wheels (front or back), you could effectively lock up all
> > four. I can see that as somewhat of a possible concern. However, it
> > seemed at first like you were implying the number of driving wheels
> > somehow had some relationship to how many wheels could be locked up in
> > a skid; moreover, that you can't lock up all four wheels in a skid
> > when in 2wd mode or in a 2wd vehicle. This, of course, is wrong (if
> > you disagree, please set me straight!); you can skid all four wheels
> > in ANY car (barring antilock braking or traction control system
> > equipped cars, about which I care not). I'm just saying, you can lock
> > up all four wheels and slide sideways into a ditch/do 360s in nothing
> > flat with a 2wd car just as easily as you can in a 4x4 PT vehicle.
> >
> > And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> > antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> > but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> > CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> > heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)
> >
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FFB1D34.F426DA64@sympatico.ca>...
> > > Not knowing how to drive in 4x4 is more likely.
> > >
> > > When you hit the brakes in a 2 wheel drive, you only lock up the front
> > > tires so you lose steering until you pump the pedal. Jeeps especially
> > > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
> > >
> > > If you are in 4x4 part time and hit the brakes, you lock up all 4 wheels
> > > and will slide sideways into the ditch or do 360's faster than you can
> > > blink.
> > >
> > > People don't know this until it is too late. I even know folks that
> > > have done exactly that and still after not known why it happened.
> > >
> > > Some folks also don't realize just because you can get going faster
> > > easier, you sure can't stop any faster.
> > >
> > > If you leave the room to maneuver and know what happens when you hit the
> > > brakes, then keeping up with the transport trucks is a good speed to
> > > drive in my opinion and around here that is between 55 and 65 mph.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

That's interesting to know. Next time we get a little snow, I'm going
to have someone watch me in an empty parking lot, and test this out. I
had always thought I was locking up all four wheels when I hit the
brakes pretty good in slippery conditions.


....One of these days I'll know enough to be knowledgeable and not just
enough to be dangerous ;-) ...

Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FFC393D.82EBADAD@sympatico.ca>...
> You are correct, I didn't really spit that out right...
>
> And yes, if your Jeep is newer than 1974 you do have rear anti lock
> brakes or anti skid brakes.
>
> They started putting a combination valve in them for safety reasons to
> prevent rear wheel lock up at speed so you can panic brake in a straight
> line and not slide sideways or do 360's.
>
> All newer cars have them. At first it was only utility vehicles,
> pickups and wagons that came with it.
>
> I remember my Dad getting his first wagon that had rear anti skid
> system.. He was really pleased with the difference in winter driving
> being able to brake straight without having to pump the crap out of the
> pedal.
>
> If you try it, you will find you can lock the front wheels up and the
> rears won't lock until you are almost at a complete stop. If you can
> lock your rear wheels at speed, you have a broken combination valve that
> should be changed ASAP.
>
> Mike
>
> Bob wrote:
> >
> > Ok, I think I see what you're trying to get at: the fact that since
> > the front and rear axle are locked together in 4wd pt, if you lock up
> > one set of wheels (front or back), you could effectively lock up all
> > four. I can see that as somewhat of a possible concern. However, it
> > seemed at first like you were implying the number of driving wheels
> > somehow had some relationship to how many wheels could be locked up in
> > a skid; moreover, that you can't lock up all four wheels in a skid
> > when in 2wd mode or in a 2wd vehicle. This, of course, is wrong (if
> > you disagree, please set me straight!); you can skid all four wheels
> > in ANY car (barring antilock braking or traction control system
> > equipped cars, about which I care not). I'm just saying, you can lock
> > up all four wheels and slide sideways into a ditch/do 360s in nothing
> > flat with a 2wd car just as easily as you can in a 4x4 PT vehicle.
> >
> > And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> > antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> > but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> > CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> > heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)
> >
> > Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FFB1D34.F426DA64@sympatico.ca>...
> > > Not knowing how to drive in 4x4 is more likely.
> > >
> > > When you hit the brakes in a 2 wheel drive, you only lock up the front
> > > tires so you lose steering until you pump the pedal. Jeeps especially
> > > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
> > >
> > > If you are in 4x4 part time and hit the brakes, you lock up all 4 wheels
> > > and will slide sideways into the ditch or do 360's faster than you can
> > > blink.
> > >
> > > People don't know this until it is too late. I even know folks that
> > > have done exactly that and still after not known why it happened.
> > >
> > > Some folks also don't realize just because you can get going faster
> > > easier, you sure can't stop any faster.
> > >
> > > If you leave the room to maneuver and know what happens when you hit the
> > > brakes, then keeping up with the transport trucks is a good speed to
> > > drive in my opinion and around here that is between 55 and 65 mph.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Agreed.

I guess I will call it a combination valve like it is with a
proportioning part in it.

It is a dynamic proportioning valve too though.

And it's only design or purpose is to provide rear anti lock brakes,
'Not' 'ABS' as folks today think of it, but 'to prevent rear brake
lockup'....

Damn I wish I could find those old advertisements, then I would call it
exactly like it was sold as.

Mike

Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 08 Jan 2004 06:13 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > Ok, what 'should' I call it?
>
> You could call it a proportioning valve. 8^)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Agreed.

I guess I will call it a combination valve like it is with a
proportioning part in it.

It is a dynamic proportioning valve too though.

And it's only design or purpose is to provide rear anti lock brakes,
'Not' 'ABS' as folks today think of it, but 'to prevent rear brake
lockup'....

Damn I wish I could find those old advertisements, then I would call it
exactly like it was sold as.

Mike

Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 08 Jan 2004 06:13 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > Ok, what 'should' I call it?
>
> You could call it a proportioning valve. 8^)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Agreed.

I guess I will call it a combination valve like it is with a
proportioning part in it.

It is a dynamic proportioning valve too though.

And it's only design or purpose is to provide rear anti lock brakes,
'Not' 'ABS' as folks today think of it, but 'to prevent rear brake
lockup'....

Damn I wish I could find those old advertisements, then I would call it
exactly like it was sold as.

Mike

Del Rawlins wrote:
>
> On 08 Jan 2004 06:13 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > Ok, what 'should' I call it?
>
> You could call it a proportioning valve. 8^)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Jeeps got the combination valve in 74 according to one of my manuals to
prevent rear wheel lockup under hard braking.

Mike

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" wrote:
>
> Roughly 1/7/04 13:48, CRWLR's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> >
> > I always thought the job of the portioning valve was to balance the braking
> > "power" equally, or proportionally, between the front and rear brakes.
> > Without the portioning valve, the rear brakes, especially on a front disc
> > brake system would not have the proper braking pressure appled even if the
> > brakes were properly adjusted.
> >
>
> Or on a combination disc/drum brake system or pure drum/drum or
> anywhere that weight transfer unloads the rears so they tend to
> lock up if fed the same hydraulic pressure as the fronts.
>
> Actually I've been wondering why this topic is relevant for Jeeps?
> Is the addition of a brake proportioning valve some sort of
> recent ["recent" in terms of someone other than Bill H.]
> mod or something?
>
> I can remember drum/drum brake systems that had a proportioning
> valve to send more to the front brakes to avoid rear lockup
> due to weight transfer waaayyyyy back on sports cars and
> in the 60's on 'merkin ones.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

Jeeps got the combination valve in 74 according to one of my manuals to
prevent rear wheel lockup under hard braking.

Mike

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" wrote:
>
> Roughly 1/7/04 13:48, CRWLR's monkeys randomly typed:
>
> >
> > I always thought the job of the portioning valve was to balance the braking
> > "power" equally, or proportionally, between the front and rear brakes.
> > Without the portioning valve, the rear brakes, especially on a front disc
> > brake system would not have the proper braking pressure appled even if the
> > brakes were properly adjusted.
> >
>
> Or on a combination disc/drum brake system or pure drum/drum or
> anywhere that weight transfer unloads the rears so they tend to
> lock up if fed the same hydraulic pressure as the fronts.
>
> Actually I've been wondering why this topic is relevant for Jeeps?
> Is the addition of a brake proportioning valve some sort of
> recent ["recent" in terms of someone other than Bill H.]
> mod or something?
>
> I can remember drum/drum brake systems that had a proportioning
> valve to send more to the front brakes to avoid rear lockup
> due to weight transfer waaayyyyy back on sports cars and
> in the 60's on 'merkin ones.