Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

That is exactly the function of the valve Will. That is why they put
them in.

Mike

Will Honea wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:15:21 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > I can lock them up for the last 2 or 3 feet of a stop if I have all my
> > 200 lb on it, but no way they will lock at speed.
> >
> > That is what that valve is specifically for.
> >
> > Locking the rear wheels at speed causes instant 360's. Try mashing the
> > e-brake on while driving 50 mph across an empty parking lot or on a
> > frozen lake.
> >
> > We actually use this method for getting around corners fast when ice
> > racing, especially in front wheel drive cars.
>
> That's probably more a function of the particular valve than an
> inherent characteristic of the system. Most of my observations on the
> antilock brakes actually comes from pickups where load sensing
> adjusters are common as well, so that will make a difference. The day
> I forgot to reconnect the load sensor lever and tried to stop when the
> MJ was empty with the load sensor saying I was on the bump stops was
> highly enlightening, to say the least <g>. Those proportioners are
> really a very simple regulator that keep the pressure differential
> front-to-rear at some pretty much fixed ratio so in theory you can
> lock everything solid but as you point out it's not easy.
>
> That little trick with the emergency brake is useful in a lot of
> places but the foot operated ebrake makes it a real PITA to use. I've
> looked at replacing mine with the hand-operated type several times but
> haven't actually tried to change it over. For me, I almost have to
> open the door to have enough room to clear the steering wheel when
> applying the ebrake. Plus, it's hard to feather how much braking you
> get with it. Combined with a manual tranny it makes for 4 pedals and
> only 2 feet. Now add in the release lever and you have 4 pedals, 2
> levers, and 1 steering wheel - all ------ out in exactly the wrong
> relative positions for only 2 feet and 2 hands. ARRGGH!
>
> All of my kids have been run thru the exercise of that rear ebrake on
> a long, wide runway. It is a real eye opener for them when you tell
> them to stop from 60mph or so using ONLY the ebrake.
>
> --
> Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

That is exactly the function of the valve Will. That is why they put
them in.

Mike

Will Honea wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:15:21 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > I can lock them up for the last 2 or 3 feet of a stop if I have all my
> > 200 lb on it, but no way they will lock at speed.
> >
> > That is what that valve is specifically for.
> >
> > Locking the rear wheels at speed causes instant 360's. Try mashing the
> > e-brake on while driving 50 mph across an empty parking lot or on a
> > frozen lake.
> >
> > We actually use this method for getting around corners fast when ice
> > racing, especially in front wheel drive cars.
>
> That's probably more a function of the particular valve than an
> inherent characteristic of the system. Most of my observations on the
> antilock brakes actually comes from pickups where load sensing
> adjusters are common as well, so that will make a difference. The day
> I forgot to reconnect the load sensor lever and tried to stop when the
> MJ was empty with the load sensor saying I was on the bump stops was
> highly enlightening, to say the least <g>. Those proportioners are
> really a very simple regulator that keep the pressure differential
> front-to-rear at some pretty much fixed ratio so in theory you can
> lock everything solid but as you point out it's not easy.
>
> That little trick with the emergency brake is useful in a lot of
> places but the foot operated ebrake makes it a real PITA to use. I've
> looked at replacing mine with the hand-operated type several times but
> haven't actually tried to change it over. For me, I almost have to
> open the door to have enough room to clear the steering wheel when
> applying the ebrake. Plus, it's hard to feather how much braking you
> get with it. Combined with a manual tranny it makes for 4 pedals and
> only 2 feet. Now add in the release lever and you have 4 pedals, 2
> levers, and 1 steering wheel - all ------ out in exactly the wrong
> relative positions for only 2 feet and 2 hands. ARRGGH!
>
> All of my kids have been run thru the exercise of that rear ebrake on
> a long, wide runway. It is a real eye opener for them when you tell
> them to stop from 60mph or so using ONLY the ebrake.
>
> --
> Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

That is exactly the function of the valve Will. That is why they put
them in.

Mike

Will Honea wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:15:21 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > I can lock them up for the last 2 or 3 feet of a stop if I have all my
> > 200 lb on it, but no way they will lock at speed.
> >
> > That is what that valve is specifically for.
> >
> > Locking the rear wheels at speed causes instant 360's. Try mashing the
> > e-brake on while driving 50 mph across an empty parking lot or on a
> > frozen lake.
> >
> > We actually use this method for getting around corners fast when ice
> > racing, especially in front wheel drive cars.
>
> That's probably more a function of the particular valve than an
> inherent characteristic of the system. Most of my observations on the
> antilock brakes actually comes from pickups where load sensing
> adjusters are common as well, so that will make a difference. The day
> I forgot to reconnect the load sensor lever and tried to stop when the
> MJ was empty with the load sensor saying I was on the bump stops was
> highly enlightening, to say the least <g>. Those proportioners are
> really a very simple regulator that keep the pressure differential
> front-to-rear at some pretty much fixed ratio so in theory you can
> lock everything solid but as you point out it's not easy.
>
> That little trick with the emergency brake is useful in a lot of
> places but the foot operated ebrake makes it a real PITA to use. I've
> looked at replacing mine with the hand-operated type several times but
> haven't actually tried to change it over. For me, I almost have to
> open the door to have enough room to clear the steering wheel when
> applying the ebrake. Plus, it's hard to feather how much braking you
> get with it. Combined with a manual tranny it makes for 4 pedals and
> only 2 feet. Now add in the release lever and you have 4 pedals, 2
> levers, and 1 steering wheel - all ------ out in exactly the wrong
> relative positions for only 2 feet and 2 hands. ARRGGH!
>
> All of my kids have been run thru the exercise of that rear ebrake on
> a long, wide runway. It is a real eye opener for them when you tell
> them to stop from 60mph or so using ONLY the ebrake.
>
> --
> Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

"Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
news:20040107085049493-0900@news.newsguy.com...
> On 07 Jan 2004 06:50 AM, Bob posted the following:
>
> > And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> > antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> > but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> > CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> > heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)
>
> According to Mike, the proportioning valve should be classified as an
> ABS system, which it is not.
>

That's right Del, brakes that fail to lock are not necessarily ABS. It is
certainly not an ABS system by intent. It might turn out to be a primitive
form of ABS, but there was no design theory that made this happen.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

"Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
news:20040107085049493-0900@news.newsguy.com...
> On 07 Jan 2004 06:50 AM, Bob posted the following:
>
> > And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> > antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> > but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> > CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> > heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)
>
> According to Mike, the proportioning valve should be classified as an
> ABS system, which it is not.
>

That's right Del, brakes that fail to lock are not necessarily ABS. It is
certainly not an ABS system by intent. It might turn out to be a primitive
form of ABS, but there was no design theory that made this happen.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

"Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
news:20040107085049493-0900@news.newsguy.com...
> On 07 Jan 2004 06:50 AM, Bob posted the following:
>
> > And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> > antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> > but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> > CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> > heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)
>
> According to Mike, the proportioning valve should be classified as an
> ABS system, which it is not.
>

That's right Del, brakes that fail to lock are not necessarily ABS. It is
certainly not an ABS system by intent. It might turn out to be a primitive
form of ABS, but there was no design theory that made this happen.

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

That was three jobs ago Bill. Sheesh, can't you keep up at all? ;-)

Regardless of the kind of writer one happens to be, the OP already had the
question, he was LOOKING for an answer.




"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3FFB7F9D.8323CDA@cox.net...
> Not all of us are Technical Writers, some of us write the way we
> talk.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> CRWLR wrote:
> >
> > Technically, it's the sort of ANSWER you were looking for :-).

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

That was three jobs ago Bill. Sheesh, can't you keep up at all? ;-)

Regardless of the kind of writer one happens to be, the OP already had the
question, he was LOOKING for an answer.




"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3FFB7F9D.8323CDA@cox.net...
> Not all of us are Technical Writers, some of us write the way we
> talk.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> CRWLR wrote:
> >
> > Technically, it's the sort of ANSWER you were looking for :-).

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

That was three jobs ago Bill. Sheesh, can't you keep up at all? ;-)

Regardless of the kind of writer one happens to be, the OP already had the
question, he was LOOKING for an answer.




"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@cox.net> wrote in message
news:3FFB7F9D.8323CDA@cox.net...
> Not all of us are Technical Writers, some of us write the way we
> talk.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>
> CRWLR wrote:
> >
> > Technically, it's the sort of ANSWER you were looking for :-).

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

CRWLR wrote:
>
> "Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
> news:20040107085049493-0900@news.newsguy.com...
> > On 07 Jan 2004 06:50 AM, Bob posted the following:
> >
> > > And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> > > antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> > > but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> > > CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> > > heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)
> >
> > According to Mike, the proportioning valve should be classified as an
> > ABS system, which it is not.
> >
>
> That's right Del, brakes that fail to lock are not necessarily ABS. It is
> certainly not an ABS system by intent. It might turn out to be a primitive
> form of ABS, but there was no design theory that made this happen.

Wow, I am amazed.

There is one and only one reason for a proportioning valve.

That is to prevent the rear wheels from locking up when hard braking.

That 'is' the design principle of the thing.

What doe the acronym ABS mean?

I always thought it meant 'anti lock brake system'. Was I mistaken?

The proportioning valve is there to 'prevent' the brakes from locking
the rear wheels.

What does 'anti lock' mean? Could it mean to go against locking up or
to 'prevent' the brakes from locking the rear wheels or am I wrong?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's