Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

I can lock them up for the last 2 or 3 feet of a stop if I have all my
200 lb on it, but no way they will lock at speed.

That is what that valve is specifically for.

Locking the rear wheels at speed causes instant 360's. Try mashing the
e-brake on while driving 50 mph across an empty parking lot or on a
frozen lake.

We actually use this method for getting around corners fast when ice
racing, especially in front wheel drive cars.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Will Honea wrote:
>
> When I put my 230 pounds on the brake pedal with due determination,
> they damned sure WILL lockup - but long after the front wheels are
> begging for mercy. All a matter of degree, but that is a
> proportioning valve, not a modulating valve and at some point even a
> portion of the force is sufficient to lock them. You just have to be
> REALLY determined to do it.
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 02:59:38 UTC "mabar" <mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Yes they do. Although not electronic ABS, the proportioning valve acts as a
> > primitive rear antilock brake system. Plain and simple, the rear wheels will
> > NOT lock up, no matter how hard you mash the brake pedal.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > "Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
> > news:20040106122303346-0900@news.newsguy.com...
> > > On 06 Jan 2004 11:40 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > >
> > > > Jeeps especially
> > > > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
> > >
> > > Not.
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> >
> >
>
> --
> Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

I can lock them up for the last 2 or 3 feet of a stop if I have all my
200 lb on it, but no way they will lock at speed.

That is what that valve is specifically for.

Locking the rear wheels at speed causes instant 360's. Try mashing the
e-brake on while driving 50 mph across an empty parking lot or on a
frozen lake.

We actually use this method for getting around corners fast when ice
racing, especially in front wheel drive cars.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Will Honea wrote:
>
> When I put my 230 pounds on the brake pedal with due determination,
> they damned sure WILL lockup - but long after the front wheels are
> begging for mercy. All a matter of degree, but that is a
> proportioning valve, not a modulating valve and at some point even a
> portion of the force is sufficient to lock them. You just have to be
> REALLY determined to do it.
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 02:59:38 UTC "mabar" <mabar@NOSPAMgbronline.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Yes they do. Although not electronic ABS, the proportioning valve acts as a
> > primitive rear antilock brake system. Plain and simple, the rear wheels will
> > NOT lock up, no matter how hard you mash the brake pedal.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > "Del Rawlins" <del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org> wrote in message
> > news:20040106122303346-0900@news.newsguy.com...
> > > On 06 Jan 2004 11:40 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> > >
> > > > Jeeps especially
> > > > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
> > >
> > > Not.
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > > Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
> > > Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> > > Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> > > http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/
> >
> >
>
> --
> Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

You are correct, I didn't really spit that out right...

And yes, if your Jeep is newer than 1974 you do have rear anti lock
brakes or anti skid brakes.

They started putting a combination valve in them for safety reasons to
prevent rear wheel lock up at speed so you can panic brake in a straight
line and not slide sideways or do 360's.

All newer cars have them. At first it was only utility vehicles,
pickups and wagons that came with it.

I remember my Dad getting his first wagon that had rear anti skid
system.. He was really pleased with the difference in winter driving
being able to brake straight without having to pump the crap out of the
pedal.

If you try it, you will find you can lock the front wheels up and the
rears won't lock until you are almost at a complete stop. If you can
lock your rear wheels at speed, you have a broken combination valve that
should be changed ASAP.

Mike

Bob wrote:
>
> Ok, I think I see what you're trying to get at: the fact that since
> the front and rear axle are locked together in 4wd pt, if you lock up
> one set of wheels (front or back), you could effectively lock up all
> four. I can see that as somewhat of a possible concern. However, it
> seemed at first like you were implying the number of driving wheels
> somehow had some relationship to how many wheels could be locked up in
> a skid; moreover, that you can't lock up all four wheels in a skid
> when in 2wd mode or in a 2wd vehicle. This, of course, is wrong (if
> you disagree, please set me straight!); you can skid all four wheels
> in ANY car (barring antilock braking or traction control system
> equipped cars, about which I care not). I'm just saying, you can lock
> up all four wheels and slide sideways into a ditch/do 360s in nothing
> flat with a 2wd car just as easily as you can in a 4x4 PT vehicle.
>
> And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FFB1D34.F426DA64@sympatico.ca>...
> > Not knowing how to drive in 4x4 is more likely.
> >
> > When you hit the brakes in a 2 wheel drive, you only lock up the front
> > tires so you lose steering until you pump the pedal. Jeeps especially
> > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
> >
> > If you are in 4x4 part time and hit the brakes, you lock up all 4 wheels
> > and will slide sideways into the ditch or do 360's faster than you can
> > blink.
> >
> > People don't know this until it is too late. I even know folks that
> > have done exactly that and still after not known why it happened.
> >
> > Some folks also don't realize just because you can get going faster
> > easier, you sure can't stop any faster.
> >
> > If you leave the room to maneuver and know what happens when you hit the
> > brakes, then keeping up with the transport trucks is a good speed to
> > drive in my opinion and around here that is between 55 and 65 mph.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

You are correct, I didn't really spit that out right...

And yes, if your Jeep is newer than 1974 you do have rear anti lock
brakes or anti skid brakes.

They started putting a combination valve in them for safety reasons to
prevent rear wheel lock up at speed so you can panic brake in a straight
line and not slide sideways or do 360's.

All newer cars have them. At first it was only utility vehicles,
pickups and wagons that came with it.

I remember my Dad getting his first wagon that had rear anti skid
system.. He was really pleased with the difference in winter driving
being able to brake straight without having to pump the crap out of the
pedal.

If you try it, you will find you can lock the front wheels up and the
rears won't lock until you are almost at a complete stop. If you can
lock your rear wheels at speed, you have a broken combination valve that
should be changed ASAP.

Mike

Bob wrote:
>
> Ok, I think I see what you're trying to get at: the fact that since
> the front and rear axle are locked together in 4wd pt, if you lock up
> one set of wheels (front or back), you could effectively lock up all
> four. I can see that as somewhat of a possible concern. However, it
> seemed at first like you were implying the number of driving wheels
> somehow had some relationship to how many wheels could be locked up in
> a skid; moreover, that you can't lock up all four wheels in a skid
> when in 2wd mode or in a 2wd vehicle. This, of course, is wrong (if
> you disagree, please set me straight!); you can skid all four wheels
> in ANY car (barring antilock braking or traction control system
> equipped cars, about which I care not). I'm just saying, you can lock
> up all four wheels and slide sideways into a ditch/do 360s in nothing
> flat with a 2wd car just as easily as you can in a 4x4 PT vehicle.
>
> And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FFB1D34.F426DA64@sympatico.ca>...
> > Not knowing how to drive in 4x4 is more likely.
> >
> > When you hit the brakes in a 2 wheel drive, you only lock up the front
> > tires so you lose steering until you pump the pedal. Jeeps especially
> > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
> >
> > If you are in 4x4 part time and hit the brakes, you lock up all 4 wheels
> > and will slide sideways into the ditch or do 360's faster than you can
> > blink.
> >
> > People don't know this until it is too late. I even know folks that
> > have done exactly that and still after not known why it happened.
> >
> > Some folks also don't realize just because you can get going faster
> > easier, you sure can't stop any faster.
> >
> > If you leave the room to maneuver and know what happens when you hit the
> > brakes, then keeping up with the transport trucks is a good speed to
> > drive in my opinion and around here that is between 55 and 65 mph.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

You are correct, I didn't really spit that out right...

And yes, if your Jeep is newer than 1974 you do have rear anti lock
brakes or anti skid brakes.

They started putting a combination valve in them for safety reasons to
prevent rear wheel lock up at speed so you can panic brake in a straight
line and not slide sideways or do 360's.

All newer cars have them. At first it was only utility vehicles,
pickups and wagons that came with it.

I remember my Dad getting his first wagon that had rear anti skid
system.. He was really pleased with the difference in winter driving
being able to brake straight without having to pump the crap out of the
pedal.

If you try it, you will find you can lock the front wheels up and the
rears won't lock until you are almost at a complete stop. If you can
lock your rear wheels at speed, you have a broken combination valve that
should be changed ASAP.

Mike

Bob wrote:
>
> Ok, I think I see what you're trying to get at: the fact that since
> the front and rear axle are locked together in 4wd pt, if you lock up
> one set of wheels (front or back), you could effectively lock up all
> four. I can see that as somewhat of a possible concern. However, it
> seemed at first like you were implying the number of driving wheels
> somehow had some relationship to how many wheels could be locked up in
> a skid; moreover, that you can't lock up all four wheels in a skid
> when in 2wd mode or in a 2wd vehicle. This, of course, is wrong (if
> you disagree, please set me straight!); you can skid all four wheels
> in ANY car (barring antilock braking or traction control system
> equipped cars, about which I care not). I'm just saying, you can lock
> up all four wheels and slide sideways into a ditch/do 360s in nothing
> flat with a 2wd car just as easily as you can in a 4x4 PT vehicle.
>
> And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)
>
> Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<3FFB1D34.F426DA64@sympatico.ca>...
> > Not knowing how to drive in 4x4 is more likely.
> >
> > When you hit the brakes in a 2 wheel drive, you only lock up the front
> > tires so you lose steering until you pump the pedal. Jeeps especially
> > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
> >
> > If you are in 4x4 part time and hit the brakes, you lock up all 4 wheels
> > and will slide sideways into the ditch or do 360's faster than you can
> > blink.
> >
> > People don't know this until it is too late. I even know folks that
> > have done exactly that and still after not known why it happened.
> >
> > Some folks also don't realize just because you can get going faster
> > easier, you sure can't stop any faster.
> >
> > If you leave the room to maneuver and know what happens when you hit the
> > brakes, then keeping up with the transport trucks is a good speed to
> > drive in my opinion and around here that is between 55 and 65 mph.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

On 07 Jan 2004 07:10 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> Del Rawlins wrote:
>>
>> On 06 Jan 2004 11:40 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>>
>> > Jeeps especially
>> > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
>>
>> Not.
>>
>
> Yup, they started using a combination valve in utility vehicles like
> Jeeps, pickups and station wagons back in the 70's and it 'was'
> advertised as rear anti lock brakes and said it prevented rear wheel
> lock to allow straight line panic braking.
>
> They didn't call it 'ABS', that is a new term.

They didn't call it ABS, because it isn't an ABS system. It works
toward the same goal, but the difference in how it gets there is
important. ABS uses wheel speed sensors, a control unit and a modulator.
The combination valve is just a valve. You can call it whatever you
like but that doesn't make it so.

> I just had this discussion with someone else here and I quoted the
> books.

Which books?

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

On 07 Jan 2004 07:10 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> Del Rawlins wrote:
>>
>> On 06 Jan 2004 11:40 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>>
>> > Jeeps especially
>> > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
>>
>> Not.
>>
>
> Yup, they started using a combination valve in utility vehicles like
> Jeeps, pickups and station wagons back in the 70's and it 'was'
> advertised as rear anti lock brakes and said it prevented rear wheel
> lock to allow straight line panic braking.
>
> They didn't call it 'ABS', that is a new term.

They didn't call it ABS, because it isn't an ABS system. It works
toward the same goal, but the difference in how it gets there is
important. ABS uses wheel speed sensors, a control unit and a modulator.
The combination valve is just a valve. You can call it whatever you
like but that doesn't make it so.

> I just had this discussion with someone else here and I quoted the
> books.

Which books?

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

On 07 Jan 2004 07:10 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
> Del Rawlins wrote:
>>
>> On 06 Jan 2004 11:40 AM, Mike Romain posted the following:
>>
>> > Jeeps especially
>> > have rear anti lock brakes, have since the 70's.
>>
>> Not.
>>
>
> Yup, they started using a combination valve in utility vehicles like
> Jeeps, pickups and station wagons back in the 70's and it 'was'
> advertised as rear anti lock brakes and said it prevented rear wheel
> lock to allow straight line panic braking.
>
> They didn't call it 'ABS', that is a new term.

They didn't call it ABS, because it isn't an ABS system. It works
toward the same goal, but the difference in how it gets there is
important. ABS uses wheel speed sensors, a control unit and a modulator.
The combination valve is just a valve. You can call it whatever you
like but that doesn't make it so.

> I just had this discussion with someone else here and I quoted the
> books.

Which books?

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

On 07 Jan 2004 06:50 AM, Bob posted the following:

> And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)

According to Mike, the proportioning valve should be classified as an
ABS system, which it is not.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Re: highway speed in full time 4X4?
 

On 07 Jan 2004 06:50 AM, Bob posted the following:

> And what are you talking about with the "Jeeps especially have rear
> antilock brakes" statement? Yeah, sure, it's available as an option,
> but I think a large majority of jeeps, and know a large majority of
> CARS out there don't necessarily have antilock rear brakes. (I sure as
> heck don't have antilock rear brakes on my D44!)

According to Mike, the proportioning valve should be classified as an
ABS system, which it is not.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/