Evil Handling TJ
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Evil Handling TJ
I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
Detroit. <lol>
I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
Tia
Dean
http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
I've been saving this link just for this day
http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
Detroit. <lol>
I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
Tia
Dean
http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
I've been saving this link just for this day
http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Evil Handling TJ
On coil sprung vehicles the spooky feeling is always the track bar
bushings. You should be able to easily see the sloop at a stop turning
the steering wheel by the center and bounce it back and forth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dean wrote:
>
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
bushings. You should be able to easily see the sloop at a stop turning
the steering wheel by the center and bounce it back and forth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dean wrote:
>
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Evil Handling TJ
On coil sprung vehicles the spooky feeling is always the track bar
bushings. You should be able to easily see the sloop at a stop turning
the steering wheel by the center and bounce it back and forth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dean wrote:
>
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
bushings. You should be able to easily see the sloop at a stop turning
the steering wheel by the center and bounce it back and forth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dean wrote:
>
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Evil Handling TJ
On coil sprung vehicles the spooky feeling is always the track bar
bushings. You should be able to easily see the sloop at a stop turning
the steering wheel by the center and bounce it back and forth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dean wrote:
>
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
bushings. You should be able to easily see the sloop at a stop turning
the steering wheel by the center and bounce it back and forth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dean wrote:
>
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Evil Handling TJ
On coil sprung vehicles the spooky feeling is always the track bar
bushings. You should be able to easily see the sloop at a stop turning
the steering wheel by the center and bounce it back and forth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dean wrote:
>
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
bushings. You should be able to easily see the sloop at a stop turning
the steering wheel by the center and bounce it back and forth.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dean wrote:
>
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Evil Handling TJ
Dean wrote:
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
Simply rocking the Jeep will not uncover everything that is loose,
however, the forces of driving _will_ uncover anything that is 'mostly'
tight. Check EVERY bolt related to your lift job first, and torque back
to spec.
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
Simply rocking the Jeep will not uncover everything that is loose,
however, the forces of driving _will_ uncover anything that is 'mostly'
tight. Check EVERY bolt related to your lift job first, and torque back
to spec.
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Evil Handling TJ
Dean wrote:
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
Simply rocking the Jeep will not uncover everything that is loose,
however, the forces of driving _will_ uncover anything that is 'mostly'
tight. Check EVERY bolt related to your lift job first, and torque back
to spec.
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
Simply rocking the Jeep will not uncover everything that is loose,
however, the forces of driving _will_ uncover anything that is 'mostly'
tight. Check EVERY bolt related to your lift job first, and torque back
to spec.
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Evil Handling TJ
Dean wrote:
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
Simply rocking the Jeep will not uncover everything that is loose,
however, the forces of driving _will_ uncover anything that is 'mostly'
tight. Check EVERY bolt related to your lift job first, and torque back
to spec.
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
Simply rocking the Jeep will not uncover everything that is loose,
however, the forces of driving _will_ uncover anything that is 'mostly'
tight. Check EVERY bolt related to your lift job first, and torque back
to spec.
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Evil Handling TJ
Dean wrote:
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
Simply rocking the Jeep will not uncover everything that is loose,
however, the forces of driving _will_ uncover anything that is 'mostly'
tight. Check EVERY bolt related to your lift job first, and torque back
to spec.
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
> I've got a 98 TJ with a Teraflex lift with about 30K miles on it. Lately I've
> been noticing that the handling is getting down right spooky. It feels like
> there is a lot of slop in the suspension and any maneuver, turning, braking,
> accelerating will make the Jeep do unpredictable lane changes. Kind of like
> when a Detroit Locker suddenly unloads, the only problem is I don't have a
> Detroit. <lol>
>
> I had my son rock the Jeep while I was underneath it looking for anything that
> was loose or broken. The only thing I found were the control arm bushings
> allowed a little bit of movement. Also I had one arm out to replace the O ring
> and there was about a sixteenth of an inch of slack in the threads.
>
> Will worn bushings cause this kind of problem? If I replace the bushings will
> the slop in the control arm threads be a problem?
>
> Tia
> Dean
> http://home.comcast.net/~1redcreek
>
> I've been saving this link just for this day
> http://www.stu-offroad.com/index.shtml
Simply rocking the Jeep will not uncover everything that is loose,
however, the forces of driving _will_ uncover anything that is 'mostly'
tight. Check EVERY bolt related to your lift job first, and torque back
to spec.
--
__________________________________________________ _________
tw
71 Bill Stroppe Baja Bronco
03 TJ Rubicon - Rubicon Express 4.5"
01 XJ Sport
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
-- Dave Barry
Pronunciation: 'jEp
Function: noun
Date: 1940
Etymology: from g. p. (G= 'Government' P= '80 inch wheelbase')
A small general-purpose motor vehicle with 80-inch wheelbase,
1/4-ton capacity, and four-wheel drive used by the U.S. army in
World War II.
(Please remove the OBVIOUS to reply by email)
__________________________________________________ _________
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