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Re: Detroit Vs Japan
That's because it is sexiest, a Sorcerer is like a magic man, and
may look like: http://www.harrypotterrealm.com/movi...iler_albus.jpg Where movies may portray a Witch as any conniving female like Bell Book and Candle, but I my conception is like most, and are what their masks look like sold for Halloween: http://image08.webshots.com/8/6/67/7...1vdvLHx_fs.jpg And of course a Witch may not be male, they are Warlocks. God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/ Stephen Cowl wrote: > > Actually, I checked all the versions at BibleGateway.com and > while lots of them cite 'witchcraft', only the older KJV has > Exodus 22:18 with a witch... all the rest use 'sorceress', > which is kinda funny in a way, sort of revisionism. > 'Sorceress' sounds more sexy and powerful, too... > __ > Steve > . |
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> you mentioned that you were considering IT and as i excuse myself from > this conversation before mike hurts himself ill add this. if youre > already a licensed plumber i would stay put (unless you dont like what > youre doing). as the industry is becoming flooded with wanna-be > administrators the real money will be reserved for only the best of the > best. in fact, as more and more people rush into IT the demand in the > service industry will only grow stronger. hvac/r, plumbing, electricians, > controls, etc. will be in very high demand in the future. i myself am > preparing to launch my own refrigeration business and it looks like im > going to have to pay moving expenses and offer incentives just to find > qualified help. Actually, I already _was_ in IT, but was supposed to be a programmer. I programmed in Borland C++ Builder and helped maintain their small network for a company for a short while, but they laid me off right around the time of the dot-com collapse. I was taking Computer Science in college at that time. I couldn't find another job in the field, with it shrinking so badly, and me with that job as my only experience. I sold cars again for awhile, even installed commercial laundry systems for a little over 3 years, and eventually decided that I didn't want to be in another situation like the programming job where the entire job field just collapses like it did and decided to get into a trade. I'm now working on my journeyman's license as a union plumber apprentice here in the Cincinnati area, local 392. I'm pretty happy doing that. -- Registered Linux user #378193 |
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> you mentioned that you were considering IT and as i excuse myself from > this conversation before mike hurts himself ill add this. if youre > already a licensed plumber i would stay put (unless you dont like what > youre doing). as the industry is becoming flooded with wanna-be > administrators the real money will be reserved for only the best of the > best. in fact, as more and more people rush into IT the demand in the > service industry will only grow stronger. hvac/r, plumbing, electricians, > controls, etc. will be in very high demand in the future. i myself am > preparing to launch my own refrigeration business and it looks like im > going to have to pay moving expenses and offer incentives just to find > qualified help. Actually, I already _was_ in IT, but was supposed to be a programmer. I programmed in Borland C++ Builder and helped maintain their small network for a company for a short while, but they laid me off right around the time of the dot-com collapse. I was taking Computer Science in college at that time. I couldn't find another job in the field, with it shrinking so badly, and me with that job as my only experience. I sold cars again for awhile, even installed commercial laundry systems for a little over 3 years, and eventually decided that I didn't want to be in another situation like the programming job where the entire job field just collapses like it did and decided to get into a trade. I'm now working on my journeyman's license as a union plumber apprentice here in the Cincinnati area, local 392. I'm pretty happy doing that. -- Registered Linux user #378193 |
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> you mentioned that you were considering IT and as i excuse myself from > this conversation before mike hurts himself ill add this. if youre > already a licensed plumber i would stay put (unless you dont like what > youre doing). as the industry is becoming flooded with wanna-be > administrators the real money will be reserved for only the best of the > best. in fact, as more and more people rush into IT the demand in the > service industry will only grow stronger. hvac/r, plumbing, electricians, > controls, etc. will be in very high demand in the future. i myself am > preparing to launch my own refrigeration business and it looks like im > going to have to pay moving expenses and offer incentives just to find > qualified help. Actually, I already _was_ in IT, but was supposed to be a programmer. I programmed in Borland C++ Builder and helped maintain their small network for a company for a short while, but they laid me off right around the time of the dot-com collapse. I was taking Computer Science in college at that time. I couldn't find another job in the field, with it shrinking so badly, and me with that job as my only experience. I sold cars again for awhile, even installed commercial laundry systems for a little over 3 years, and eventually decided that I didn't want to be in another situation like the programming job where the entire job field just collapses like it did and decided to get into a trade. I'm now working on my journeyman's license as a union plumber apprentice here in the Cincinnati area, local 392. I'm pretty happy doing that. -- Registered Linux user #378193 |
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> you mentioned that you were considering IT and as i excuse myself from > this conversation before mike hurts himself ill add this. if youre > already a licensed plumber i would stay put (unless you dont like what > youre doing). as the industry is becoming flooded with wanna-be > administrators the real money will be reserved for only the best of the > best. in fact, as more and more people rush into IT the demand in the > service industry will only grow stronger. hvac/r, plumbing, electricians, > controls, etc. will be in very high demand in the future. i myself am > preparing to launch my own refrigeration business and it looks like im > going to have to pay moving expenses and offer incentives just to find > qualified help. Actually, I already _was_ in IT, but was supposed to be a programmer. I programmed in Borland C++ Builder and helped maintain their small network for a company for a short while, but they laid me off right around the time of the dot-com collapse. I was taking Computer Science in college at that time. I couldn't find another job in the field, with it shrinking so badly, and me with that job as my only experience. I sold cars again for awhile, even installed commercial laundry systems for a little over 3 years, and eventually decided that I didn't want to be in another situation like the programming job where the entire job field just collapses like it did and decided to get into a trade. I'm now working on my journeyman's license as a union plumber apprentice here in the Cincinnati area, local 392. I'm pretty happy doing that. -- Registered Linux user #378193 |
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> fair enough. i had a union shop solicit me fo r employment recently > offering $26 an hour and the look on his face suggested that he thought > that was a tremendous offer. when i told them im already earnin g more > than that, and i dont have to subtract union dues from it plus im getting > benefits, paid vacation (which officially starts tomorrow :-), etc. his > expression changed. i went on further to discuss how i was able to stand > upon my own work ethic and abilities and didnt need the protection of a > union to keep working, and he excused himself from my table. I wanted to add... The union rate in my local is only the minimum. Our rate locally will be something like $27/hr for a journeyman in another week or so and an additional $1.50 or so an hour if you're a foreman but I know guys that are getting $32/hr, paid holidays & vacations, van/truck to drive and other perks. The companies are only required to pay you at least the contract rate. They're free to pay you more, and often do. You do understand that unions fought and died for overtime pay, weekends off, vacation, 8 hour days, benefits packages, retirement benefits, etc., don't you? You're not totally on your own two feet. The reason non-union jobs paid them was to compete against union shops, in order to get workers. I find it amusing when I talk to non-union guys on the job site, when they claim unions suck, but they like getting $6/hr. pay bumps for prevailing wage on state/federal funded jobs. And the most amusing thing I ever heard was a guy tell me that we need non-union people on jobs too, in order to keep the costs down. Now, saying I'm willing to do the same job for less money is like saying I'm willing to pay more than other people for a new car. It's retarded. I go where the money is. What he failed to realize is that his company bids the work as if he's paid what the union guys make. They just pocket the difference. Oh...and the benefits are stellar. We just had a guy retire after 27 years of service and he'll receive $5200 a month in pension, and he took a 7% deduction for retiring at age 55. I've yet to find a 401k retirement plan that pays that well unless you're some executive in the fat money. There's Supplemental Unemployment Benefit (S.U.B), too, which is in addition to unemployment and compensates you the difference in what you made in a 40 hr. week working and what unemployment pays you (important in construction trades) and medical leave pay which pays you while you're off from work due to a medical problem not associated with your job. None of these are even available to non-union plumbers/pipefitters. That $27/hr. is what goes on the check. There's another $11/hr that goes to various benefits the union takes care of including ongoing education through the union's school for various certifications/licenses that's totally free as long as you're in the union. It's a pretty nice package... BTW, our local is combined plumbers, pipefitters, steamfitters, _and_ mechanical equipment service, which is refrigeration/heating/air service. -- Registered Linux user #378193 |
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> fair enough. i had a union shop solicit me fo r employment recently > offering $26 an hour and the look on his face suggested that he thought > that was a tremendous offer. when i told them im already earnin g more > than that, and i dont have to subtract union dues from it plus im getting > benefits, paid vacation (which officially starts tomorrow :-), etc. his > expression changed. i went on further to discuss how i was able to stand > upon my own work ethic and abilities and didnt need the protection of a > union to keep working, and he excused himself from my table. I wanted to add... The union rate in my local is only the minimum. Our rate locally will be something like $27/hr for a journeyman in another week or so and an additional $1.50 or so an hour if you're a foreman but I know guys that are getting $32/hr, paid holidays & vacations, van/truck to drive and other perks. The companies are only required to pay you at least the contract rate. They're free to pay you more, and often do. You do understand that unions fought and died for overtime pay, weekends off, vacation, 8 hour days, benefits packages, retirement benefits, etc., don't you? You're not totally on your own two feet. The reason non-union jobs paid them was to compete against union shops, in order to get workers. I find it amusing when I talk to non-union guys on the job site, when they claim unions suck, but they like getting $6/hr. pay bumps for prevailing wage on state/federal funded jobs. And the most amusing thing I ever heard was a guy tell me that we need non-union people on jobs too, in order to keep the costs down. Now, saying I'm willing to do the same job for less money is like saying I'm willing to pay more than other people for a new car. It's retarded. I go where the money is. What he failed to realize is that his company bids the work as if he's paid what the union guys make. They just pocket the difference. Oh...and the benefits are stellar. We just had a guy retire after 27 years of service and he'll receive $5200 a month in pension, and he took a 7% deduction for retiring at age 55. I've yet to find a 401k retirement plan that pays that well unless you're some executive in the fat money. There's Supplemental Unemployment Benefit (S.U.B), too, which is in addition to unemployment and compensates you the difference in what you made in a 40 hr. week working and what unemployment pays you (important in construction trades) and medical leave pay which pays you while you're off from work due to a medical problem not associated with your job. None of these are even available to non-union plumbers/pipefitters. That $27/hr. is what goes on the check. There's another $11/hr that goes to various benefits the union takes care of including ongoing education through the union's school for various certifications/licenses that's totally free as long as you're in the union. It's a pretty nice package... BTW, our local is combined plumbers, pipefitters, steamfitters, _and_ mechanical equipment service, which is refrigeration/heating/air service. -- Registered Linux user #378193 |
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> fair enough. i had a union shop solicit me fo r employment recently > offering $26 an hour and the look on his face suggested that he thought > that was a tremendous offer. when i told them im already earnin g more > than that, and i dont have to subtract union dues from it plus im getting > benefits, paid vacation (which officially starts tomorrow :-), etc. his > expression changed. i went on further to discuss how i was able to stand > upon my own work ethic and abilities and didnt need the protection of a > union to keep working, and he excused himself from my table. I wanted to add... The union rate in my local is only the minimum. Our rate locally will be something like $27/hr for a journeyman in another week or so and an additional $1.50 or so an hour if you're a foreman but I know guys that are getting $32/hr, paid holidays & vacations, van/truck to drive and other perks. The companies are only required to pay you at least the contract rate. They're free to pay you more, and often do. You do understand that unions fought and died for overtime pay, weekends off, vacation, 8 hour days, benefits packages, retirement benefits, etc., don't you? You're not totally on your own two feet. The reason non-union jobs paid them was to compete against union shops, in order to get workers. I find it amusing when I talk to non-union guys on the job site, when they claim unions suck, but they like getting $6/hr. pay bumps for prevailing wage on state/federal funded jobs. And the most amusing thing I ever heard was a guy tell me that we need non-union people on jobs too, in order to keep the costs down. Now, saying I'm willing to do the same job for less money is like saying I'm willing to pay more than other people for a new car. It's retarded. I go where the money is. What he failed to realize is that his company bids the work as if he's paid what the union guys make. They just pocket the difference. Oh...and the benefits are stellar. We just had a guy retire after 27 years of service and he'll receive $5200 a month in pension, and he took a 7% deduction for retiring at age 55. I've yet to find a 401k retirement plan that pays that well unless you're some executive in the fat money. There's Supplemental Unemployment Benefit (S.U.B), too, which is in addition to unemployment and compensates you the difference in what you made in a 40 hr. week working and what unemployment pays you (important in construction trades) and medical leave pay which pays you while you're off from work due to a medical problem not associated with your job. None of these are even available to non-union plumbers/pipefitters. That $27/hr. is what goes on the check. There's another $11/hr that goes to various benefits the union takes care of including ongoing education through the union's school for various certifications/licenses that's totally free as long as you're in the union. It's a pretty nice package... BTW, our local is combined plumbers, pipefitters, steamfitters, _and_ mechanical equipment service, which is refrigeration/heating/air service. -- Registered Linux user #378193 |
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
Nathan W. Collier wrote:
> fair enough. i had a union shop solicit me fo r employment recently > offering $26 an hour and the look on his face suggested that he thought > that was a tremendous offer. when i told them im already earnin g more > than that, and i dont have to subtract union dues from it plus im getting > benefits, paid vacation (which officially starts tomorrow :-), etc. his > expression changed. i went on further to discuss how i was able to stand > upon my own work ethic and abilities and didnt need the protection of a > union to keep working, and he excused himself from my table. I wanted to add... The union rate in my local is only the minimum. Our rate locally will be something like $27/hr for a journeyman in another week or so and an additional $1.50 or so an hour if you're a foreman but I know guys that are getting $32/hr, paid holidays & vacations, van/truck to drive and other perks. The companies are only required to pay you at least the contract rate. They're free to pay you more, and often do. You do understand that unions fought and died for overtime pay, weekends off, vacation, 8 hour days, benefits packages, retirement benefits, etc., don't you? You're not totally on your own two feet. The reason non-union jobs paid them was to compete against union shops, in order to get workers. I find it amusing when I talk to non-union guys on the job site, when they claim unions suck, but they like getting $6/hr. pay bumps for prevailing wage on state/federal funded jobs. And the most amusing thing I ever heard was a guy tell me that we need non-union people on jobs too, in order to keep the costs down. Now, saying I'm willing to do the same job for less money is like saying I'm willing to pay more than other people for a new car. It's retarded. I go where the money is. What he failed to realize is that his company bids the work as if he's paid what the union guys make. They just pocket the difference. Oh...and the benefits are stellar. We just had a guy retire after 27 years of service and he'll receive $5200 a month in pension, and he took a 7% deduction for retiring at age 55. I've yet to find a 401k retirement plan that pays that well unless you're some executive in the fat money. There's Supplemental Unemployment Benefit (S.U.B), too, which is in addition to unemployment and compensates you the difference in what you made in a 40 hr. week working and what unemployment pays you (important in construction trades) and medical leave pay which pays you while you're off from work due to a medical problem not associated with your job. None of these are even available to non-union plumbers/pipefitters. That $27/hr. is what goes on the check. There's another $11/hr that goes to various benefits the union takes care of including ongoing education through the union's school for various certifications/licenses that's totally free as long as you're in the union. It's a pretty nice package... BTW, our local is combined plumbers, pipefitters, steamfitters, _and_ mechanical equipment service, which is refrigeration/heating/air service. -- Registered Linux user #378193 |
Re: Detroit Vs Japan
"Ruel Smith" <NoWay@NoWhere.com> wrote in message
news:1203f$429ce266$4275e5d4$8025@FUSE.NET... > You do understand that unions fought and died for overtime pay, weekends > off, vacation, 8 hour days, benefits packages, retirement benefits, etc., > don't you? just like affirmative action, once upon a time the union was necessary. just like affirmative action, that time has long since passed. the union is no longer out for the worker, the union is nothing more than self serving big business....the union is out for the union and the money that goes along with it. i cant speak for unskilled labor because i applied myself in order to master multiple trades. perhaps dumb-asses who cannot survive on their own merit need a union to protect their jobs (the strong carrying the weak) but i choose to work in a free market place where only the strong survive and are paid accordingly. > saying I'm willing to do the same job for less > money is like saying I'm willing to pay more than other people for a new > car. It's retarded. i dont understand where that came from? im not at all suggesting that non-union can do it cheaper than union. in fact im paid nearly $5 an hour more than the union journeymen who work in my field (plus i get benefits/paid vacation/holiday pay/etc. and they get nothing beyond $26 an hour). im saying that typical non-union employees can do it _better_ simply because we stand upon our own merit. we have no other protection beyond our skills and work ethic. certainly there are exceptions to everything ive said, but im talking realistic expectation at least for my geographical area. -- Nathan W. Collier http://7SlotGrille.com http://UtilityOffRoad.com |
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