Close Call!
#171
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
4X4PLAY,
Your questions were answered in the former posts.
You should read them in their entirety.
Spdloader
"4X4PLAY" <jrhiltz@eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:XTKRf.32968$dg.19345@clgrps13...
> Man, I have to really agree with Mike...I know what he says is a fact...I
> live in a Valley in Nova Scotia where we get alot of snow and ice
> conditions to contend with and I know for sure when I'm in part time and
> hit the brakes on ice my open diff'd TJ will slide side ways every
> time...unlike my Grand Cherokee in Full time will follow a straight line
> everytime....
>
> The other thing is, it has to be the tires...after reading this and
> running it over and over in my mind and being out on the North Mountain
> snow wheeling several times since I have a hard time grasping the loss of
> traction and not using gearing to come down the hills as I do all the
> time...it really makes me think that it was all a tire problem...I run a
> good tire!
>
> Spdloader are you in an area that receives snow?? what type of Jeep do you
> drive??
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:441747F5.18728669@***.net...
>> Ditto.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>> Well....
>>>
>>> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
>>> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>>>
>>> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
>>> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
>>> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>>>
>>> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
>>> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
>>> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
>>> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>>>
>>> What are you running for rubber?
>>>
>>> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
>>> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
>>> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
>>> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
>>> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
>>> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
>>> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>>>
>>> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
>>> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
>>> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>>>
>>> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
Your questions were answered in the former posts.
You should read them in their entirety.
Spdloader
"4X4PLAY" <jrhiltz@eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:XTKRf.32968$dg.19345@clgrps13...
> Man, I have to really agree with Mike...I know what he says is a fact...I
> live in a Valley in Nova Scotia where we get alot of snow and ice
> conditions to contend with and I know for sure when I'm in part time and
> hit the brakes on ice my open diff'd TJ will slide side ways every
> time...unlike my Grand Cherokee in Full time will follow a straight line
> everytime....
>
> The other thing is, it has to be the tires...after reading this and
> running it over and over in my mind and being out on the North Mountain
> snow wheeling several times since I have a hard time grasping the loss of
> traction and not using gearing to come down the hills as I do all the
> time...it really makes me think that it was all a tire problem...I run a
> good tire!
>
> Spdloader are you in an area that receives snow?? what type of Jeep do you
> drive??
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:441747F5.18728669@***.net...
>> Ditto.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>> Well....
>>>
>>> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
>>> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>>>
>>> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
>>> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
>>> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>>>
>>> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
>>> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
>>> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
>>> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>>>
>>> What are you running for rubber?
>>>
>>> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
>>> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
>>> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
>>> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
>>> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
>>> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
>>> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>>>
>>> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
>>> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
>>> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>>>
>>> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
#172
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
4X4PLAY,
Your questions were answered in the former posts.
You should read them in their entirety.
Spdloader
"4X4PLAY" <jrhiltz@eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:XTKRf.32968$dg.19345@clgrps13...
> Man, I have to really agree with Mike...I know what he says is a fact...I
> live in a Valley in Nova Scotia where we get alot of snow and ice
> conditions to contend with and I know for sure when I'm in part time and
> hit the brakes on ice my open diff'd TJ will slide side ways every
> time...unlike my Grand Cherokee in Full time will follow a straight line
> everytime....
>
> The other thing is, it has to be the tires...after reading this and
> running it over and over in my mind and being out on the North Mountain
> snow wheeling several times since I have a hard time grasping the loss of
> traction and not using gearing to come down the hills as I do all the
> time...it really makes me think that it was all a tire problem...I run a
> good tire!
>
> Spdloader are you in an area that receives snow?? what type of Jeep do you
> drive??
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:441747F5.18728669@***.net...
>> Ditto.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>> Well....
>>>
>>> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
>>> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>>>
>>> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
>>> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
>>> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>>>
>>> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
>>> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
>>> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
>>> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>>>
>>> What are you running for rubber?
>>>
>>> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
>>> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
>>> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
>>> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
>>> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
>>> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
>>> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>>>
>>> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
>>> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
>>> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>>>
>>> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
Your questions were answered in the former posts.
You should read them in their entirety.
Spdloader
"4X4PLAY" <jrhiltz@eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:XTKRf.32968$dg.19345@clgrps13...
> Man, I have to really agree with Mike...I know what he says is a fact...I
> live in a Valley in Nova Scotia where we get alot of snow and ice
> conditions to contend with and I know for sure when I'm in part time and
> hit the brakes on ice my open diff'd TJ will slide side ways every
> time...unlike my Grand Cherokee in Full time will follow a straight line
> everytime....
>
> The other thing is, it has to be the tires...after reading this and
> running it over and over in my mind and being out on the North Mountain
> snow wheeling several times since I have a hard time grasping the loss of
> traction and not using gearing to come down the hills as I do all the
> time...it really makes me think that it was all a tire problem...I run a
> good tire!
>
> Spdloader are you in an area that receives snow?? what type of Jeep do you
> drive??
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:441747F5.18728669@***.net...
>> Ditto.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>> Well....
>>>
>>> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
>>> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>>>
>>> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
>>> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
>>> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>>>
>>> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
>>> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
>>> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
>>> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>>>
>>> What are you running for rubber?
>>>
>>> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
>>> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
>>> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
>>> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
>>> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
>>> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
>>> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>>>
>>> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
>>> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
>>> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>>>
>>> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
#173
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
4X4PLAY,
Your questions were answered in the former posts.
You should read them in their entirety.
Spdloader
"4X4PLAY" <jrhiltz@eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:XTKRf.32968$dg.19345@clgrps13...
> Man, I have to really agree with Mike...I know what he says is a fact...I
> live in a Valley in Nova Scotia where we get alot of snow and ice
> conditions to contend with and I know for sure when I'm in part time and
> hit the brakes on ice my open diff'd TJ will slide side ways every
> time...unlike my Grand Cherokee in Full time will follow a straight line
> everytime....
>
> The other thing is, it has to be the tires...after reading this and
> running it over and over in my mind and being out on the North Mountain
> snow wheeling several times since I have a hard time grasping the loss of
> traction and not using gearing to come down the hills as I do all the
> time...it really makes me think that it was all a tire problem...I run a
> good tire!
>
> Spdloader are you in an area that receives snow?? what type of Jeep do you
> drive??
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:441747F5.18728669@***.net...
>> Ditto.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>> Well....
>>>
>>> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
>>> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>>>
>>> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
>>> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
>>> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>>>
>>> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
>>> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
>>> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
>>> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>>>
>>> What are you running for rubber?
>>>
>>> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
>>> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
>>> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
>>> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
>>> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
>>> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
>>> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>>>
>>> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
>>> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
>>> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>>>
>>> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
Your questions were answered in the former posts.
You should read them in their entirety.
Spdloader
"4X4PLAY" <jrhiltz@eastlink.ca> wrote in message
news:XTKRf.32968$dg.19345@clgrps13...
> Man, I have to really agree with Mike...I know what he says is a fact...I
> live in a Valley in Nova Scotia where we get alot of snow and ice
> conditions to contend with and I know for sure when I'm in part time and
> hit the brakes on ice my open diff'd TJ will slide side ways every
> time...unlike my Grand Cherokee in Full time will follow a straight line
> everytime....
>
> The other thing is, it has to be the tires...after reading this and
> running it over and over in my mind and being out on the North Mountain
> snow wheeling several times since I have a hard time grasping the loss of
> traction and not using gearing to come down the hills as I do all the
> time...it really makes me think that it was all a tire problem...I run a
> good tire!
>
> Spdloader are you in an area that receives snow?? what type of Jeep do you
> drive??
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
> news:441747F5.18728669@***.net...
>> Ditto.
>> God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
>> mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
>>
>> Mike Romain wrote:
>>>
>>> Well....
>>>
>>> The owners manual in 'both' of my Jeeps plainly states to 'stay off the
>>> brakes and to use the gears' in slippery situations.
>>>
>>> I ice and snow drive off road all the time and have found that
>>> surprisingly the owners manual is correct. If you use the brakes, you
>>> will fast lose control and if you use neutral, you are 'out' of control.
>>>
>>> In the above case, I would be using 4 low in 2nd or more likely 3rd
>>> gear. I have a 5 speed. If I couldn't hold control, then I would be
>>> taking a 'serious' look at my tires. You were in low by the sound of
>>> it. The 'part time' light means that.
>>>
>>> What are you running for rubber?
>>>
>>> Summer or 'all season' tires have no place on a mountain ravine trail on
>>> ice unless you have chains on. Period. Been there, done that, got the
>>> crap scared out of me when I had to do the 'exact' same thing as you on
>>> a logging trail near Tahsis on Vancouver Island. If I used the brakes,
>>> the front wheels locked and I slid to the cliff edge so I had to use the
>>> emergency brake and low and neutral. I also had my wife and kid out
>>> watching. I had half worn all season tires on a Chevy 2 WD pickup then.
>>>
>>> I think you have just reached the limit of the equipment, not that you
>>> really did anything wrong. You tried it all by the sounds of it... I
>>> sure never tried anything that steep in my Chevy again....
>>>
>>> Glad to hear you got out of it in one piece.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
>
#174
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
>> > Putting a 4x4 vehicle into neutral is a last resort when you are 'out
>> > of
>> > control'. You may be able to stop, but you won't have control.
---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>> ---You usually don't have time to react, but in a slow speed slide
>> because
>> your wheels don't have traction WILL correct itself if slipped into
>> neutral
>> and the steering wheel turned toward the slide.
> Not in a 4x4 with a locked center diff or 'part time' drive. See
> explanation below.
---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
> I think folks should go out to a parking lot to learn and see the
> differences, but as a general statement, using the gears to slow down is
> better than brakes in a 4x4 with a locked center differential or in
> 'part time' 4x4.
---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
slower than walking to start with.
> Neutral just don't work because when in a slide with the wheels turned,
> the front wheels still have to travel 'farther' in the circle to come
> back straight. This means one back tire or one front tire has to scuff
> the ground or start to slide sending you into a worse slide or really
> fast 360's. You have to have power to overcome this wheel scuff or it's
> like locking the brake on one front ot rear or both tires.
---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
because they have farther to travel.
>
>> ---In the accidents I investigated, numbering in the very high hundreds,
>> SPEED was the single most cause of those accidents on exit ramps. Not
>> shifting into neutral, but SPEED. Driving too fast for conditions, merely
>> because they are in a 4WD, is what causes people to crash SUV's in
>> inclement
>> weather.
>
> They then hit the brakes to slow down maybe dumping the clutch, maybe
> not as in an auto and as soon as the front tires skidded, the rears
> skidded and off to the low side they went faster than they can blink.
> Just like pulling on the emergency brake half way around a corner. Try
> it, it's fun...
---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
to do with the original post.
> If they had of used the engine to slow down, they would have been able
> to make the corner most likely. Really, try it...
---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
gearing.
> Jeep 4x4 works 'really' well when you learn it.
---Obvious insult ignored.
>> > of
>> > control'. You may be able to stop, but you won't have control.
---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>> ---You usually don't have time to react, but in a slow speed slide
>> because
>> your wheels don't have traction WILL correct itself if slipped into
>> neutral
>> and the steering wheel turned toward the slide.
> Not in a 4x4 with a locked center diff or 'part time' drive. See
> explanation below.
---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
> I think folks should go out to a parking lot to learn and see the
> differences, but as a general statement, using the gears to slow down is
> better than brakes in a 4x4 with a locked center differential or in
> 'part time' 4x4.
---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
slower than walking to start with.
> Neutral just don't work because when in a slide with the wheels turned,
> the front wheels still have to travel 'farther' in the circle to come
> back straight. This means one back tire or one front tire has to scuff
> the ground or start to slide sending you into a worse slide or really
> fast 360's. You have to have power to overcome this wheel scuff or it's
> like locking the brake on one front ot rear or both tires.
---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
because they have farther to travel.
>
>> ---In the accidents I investigated, numbering in the very high hundreds,
>> SPEED was the single most cause of those accidents on exit ramps. Not
>> shifting into neutral, but SPEED. Driving too fast for conditions, merely
>> because they are in a 4WD, is what causes people to crash SUV's in
>> inclement
>> weather.
>
> They then hit the brakes to slow down maybe dumping the clutch, maybe
> not as in an auto and as soon as the front tires skidded, the rears
> skidded and off to the low side they went faster than they can blink.
> Just like pulling on the emergency brake half way around a corner. Try
> it, it's fun...
---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
to do with the original post.
> If they had of used the engine to slow down, they would have been able
> to make the corner most likely. Really, try it...
---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
gearing.
> Jeep 4x4 works 'really' well when you learn it.
---Obvious insult ignored.
#175
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
>> > Putting a 4x4 vehicle into neutral is a last resort when you are 'out
>> > of
>> > control'. You may be able to stop, but you won't have control.
---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>> ---You usually don't have time to react, but in a slow speed slide
>> because
>> your wheels don't have traction WILL correct itself if slipped into
>> neutral
>> and the steering wheel turned toward the slide.
> Not in a 4x4 with a locked center diff or 'part time' drive. See
> explanation below.
---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
> I think folks should go out to a parking lot to learn and see the
> differences, but as a general statement, using the gears to slow down is
> better than brakes in a 4x4 with a locked center differential or in
> 'part time' 4x4.
---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
slower than walking to start with.
> Neutral just don't work because when in a slide with the wheels turned,
> the front wheels still have to travel 'farther' in the circle to come
> back straight. This means one back tire or one front tire has to scuff
> the ground or start to slide sending you into a worse slide or really
> fast 360's. You have to have power to overcome this wheel scuff or it's
> like locking the brake on one front ot rear or both tires.
---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
because they have farther to travel.
>
>> ---In the accidents I investigated, numbering in the very high hundreds,
>> SPEED was the single most cause of those accidents on exit ramps. Not
>> shifting into neutral, but SPEED. Driving too fast for conditions, merely
>> because they are in a 4WD, is what causes people to crash SUV's in
>> inclement
>> weather.
>
> They then hit the brakes to slow down maybe dumping the clutch, maybe
> not as in an auto and as soon as the front tires skidded, the rears
> skidded and off to the low side they went faster than they can blink.
> Just like pulling on the emergency brake half way around a corner. Try
> it, it's fun...
---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
to do with the original post.
> If they had of used the engine to slow down, they would have been able
> to make the corner most likely. Really, try it...
---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
gearing.
> Jeep 4x4 works 'really' well when you learn it.
---Obvious insult ignored.
>> > of
>> > control'. You may be able to stop, but you won't have control.
---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>> ---You usually don't have time to react, but in a slow speed slide
>> because
>> your wheels don't have traction WILL correct itself if slipped into
>> neutral
>> and the steering wheel turned toward the slide.
> Not in a 4x4 with a locked center diff or 'part time' drive. See
> explanation below.
---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
> I think folks should go out to a parking lot to learn and see the
> differences, but as a general statement, using the gears to slow down is
> better than brakes in a 4x4 with a locked center differential or in
> 'part time' 4x4.
---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
slower than walking to start with.
> Neutral just don't work because when in a slide with the wheels turned,
> the front wheels still have to travel 'farther' in the circle to come
> back straight. This means one back tire or one front tire has to scuff
> the ground or start to slide sending you into a worse slide or really
> fast 360's. You have to have power to overcome this wheel scuff or it's
> like locking the brake on one front ot rear or both tires.
---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
because they have farther to travel.
>
>> ---In the accidents I investigated, numbering in the very high hundreds,
>> SPEED was the single most cause of those accidents on exit ramps. Not
>> shifting into neutral, but SPEED. Driving too fast for conditions, merely
>> because they are in a 4WD, is what causes people to crash SUV's in
>> inclement
>> weather.
>
> They then hit the brakes to slow down maybe dumping the clutch, maybe
> not as in an auto and as soon as the front tires skidded, the rears
> skidded and off to the low side they went faster than they can blink.
> Just like pulling on the emergency brake half way around a corner. Try
> it, it's fun...
---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
to do with the original post.
> If they had of used the engine to slow down, they would have been able
> to make the corner most likely. Really, try it...
---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
gearing.
> Jeep 4x4 works 'really' well when you learn it.
---Obvious insult ignored.
#176
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
>> > Putting a 4x4 vehicle into neutral is a last resort when you are 'out
>> > of
>> > control'. You may be able to stop, but you won't have control.
---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>> ---You usually don't have time to react, but in a slow speed slide
>> because
>> your wheels don't have traction WILL correct itself if slipped into
>> neutral
>> and the steering wheel turned toward the slide.
> Not in a 4x4 with a locked center diff or 'part time' drive. See
> explanation below.
---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
> I think folks should go out to a parking lot to learn and see the
> differences, but as a general statement, using the gears to slow down is
> better than brakes in a 4x4 with a locked center differential or in
> 'part time' 4x4.
---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
slower than walking to start with.
> Neutral just don't work because when in a slide with the wheels turned,
> the front wheels still have to travel 'farther' in the circle to come
> back straight. This means one back tire or one front tire has to scuff
> the ground or start to slide sending you into a worse slide or really
> fast 360's. You have to have power to overcome this wheel scuff or it's
> like locking the brake on one front ot rear or both tires.
---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
because they have farther to travel.
>
>> ---In the accidents I investigated, numbering in the very high hundreds,
>> SPEED was the single most cause of those accidents on exit ramps. Not
>> shifting into neutral, but SPEED. Driving too fast for conditions, merely
>> because they are in a 4WD, is what causes people to crash SUV's in
>> inclement
>> weather.
>
> They then hit the brakes to slow down maybe dumping the clutch, maybe
> not as in an auto and as soon as the front tires skidded, the rears
> skidded and off to the low side they went faster than they can blink.
> Just like pulling on the emergency brake half way around a corner. Try
> it, it's fun...
---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
to do with the original post.
> If they had of used the engine to slow down, they would have been able
> to make the corner most likely. Really, try it...
---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
gearing.
> Jeep 4x4 works 'really' well when you learn it.
---Obvious insult ignored.
>> > of
>> > control'. You may be able to stop, but you won't have control.
---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>> ---You usually don't have time to react, but in a slow speed slide
>> because
>> your wheels don't have traction WILL correct itself if slipped into
>> neutral
>> and the steering wheel turned toward the slide.
> Not in a 4x4 with a locked center diff or 'part time' drive. See
> explanation below.
---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
> I think folks should go out to a parking lot to learn and see the
> differences, but as a general statement, using the gears to slow down is
> better than brakes in a 4x4 with a locked center differential or in
> 'part time' 4x4.
---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
slower than walking to start with.
> Neutral just don't work because when in a slide with the wheels turned,
> the front wheels still have to travel 'farther' in the circle to come
> back straight. This means one back tire or one front tire has to scuff
> the ground or start to slide sending you into a worse slide or really
> fast 360's. You have to have power to overcome this wheel scuff or it's
> like locking the brake on one front ot rear or both tires.
---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
because they have farther to travel.
>
>> ---In the accidents I investigated, numbering in the very high hundreds,
>> SPEED was the single most cause of those accidents on exit ramps. Not
>> shifting into neutral, but SPEED. Driving too fast for conditions, merely
>> because they are in a 4WD, is what causes people to crash SUV's in
>> inclement
>> weather.
>
> They then hit the brakes to slow down maybe dumping the clutch, maybe
> not as in an auto and as soon as the front tires skidded, the rears
> skidded and off to the low side they went faster than they can blink.
> Just like pulling on the emergency brake half way around a corner. Try
> it, it's fun...
---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
to do with the original post.
> If they had of used the engine to slow down, they would have been able
> to make the corner most likely. Really, try it...
---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
gearing.
> Jeep 4x4 works 'really' well when you learn it.
---Obvious insult ignored.
#177
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
>> > Putting a 4x4 vehicle into neutral is a last resort when you are 'out
>> > of
>> > control'. You may be able to stop, but you won't have control.
---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>> ---You usually don't have time to react, but in a slow speed slide
>> because
>> your wheels don't have traction WILL correct itself if slipped into
>> neutral
>> and the steering wheel turned toward the slide.
> Not in a 4x4 with a locked center diff or 'part time' drive. See
> explanation below.
---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
> I think folks should go out to a parking lot to learn and see the
> differences, but as a general statement, using the gears to slow down is
> better than brakes in a 4x4 with a locked center differential or in
> 'part time' 4x4.
---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
slower than walking to start with.
> Neutral just don't work because when in a slide with the wheels turned,
> the front wheels still have to travel 'farther' in the circle to come
> back straight. This means one back tire or one front tire has to scuff
> the ground or start to slide sending you into a worse slide or really
> fast 360's. You have to have power to overcome this wheel scuff or it's
> like locking the brake on one front ot rear or both tires.
---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
because they have farther to travel.
>
>> ---In the accidents I investigated, numbering in the very high hundreds,
>> SPEED was the single most cause of those accidents on exit ramps. Not
>> shifting into neutral, but SPEED. Driving too fast for conditions, merely
>> because they are in a 4WD, is what causes people to crash SUV's in
>> inclement
>> weather.
>
> They then hit the brakes to slow down maybe dumping the clutch, maybe
> not as in an auto and as soon as the front tires skidded, the rears
> skidded and off to the low side they went faster than they can blink.
> Just like pulling on the emergency brake half way around a corner. Try
> it, it's fun...
---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
to do with the original post.
> If they had of used the engine to slow down, they would have been able
> to make the corner most likely. Really, try it...
---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
gearing.
> Jeep 4x4 works 'really' well when you learn it.
---Obvious insult ignored.
>> > of
>> > control'. You may be able to stop, but you won't have control.
---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>> ---You usually don't have time to react, but in a slow speed slide
>> because
>> your wheels don't have traction WILL correct itself if slipped into
>> neutral
>> and the steering wheel turned toward the slide.
> Not in a 4x4 with a locked center diff or 'part time' drive. See
> explanation below.
---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
> I think folks should go out to a parking lot to learn and see the
> differences, but as a general statement, using the gears to slow down is
> better than brakes in a 4x4 with a locked center differential or in
> 'part time' 4x4.
---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
slower than walking to start with.
> Neutral just don't work because when in a slide with the wheels turned,
> the front wheels still have to travel 'farther' in the circle to come
> back straight. This means one back tire or one front tire has to scuff
> the ground or start to slide sending you into a worse slide or really
> fast 360's. You have to have power to overcome this wheel scuff or it's
> like locking the brake on one front ot rear or both tires.
---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
because they have farther to travel.
>
>> ---In the accidents I investigated, numbering in the very high hundreds,
>> SPEED was the single most cause of those accidents on exit ramps. Not
>> shifting into neutral, but SPEED. Driving too fast for conditions, merely
>> because they are in a 4WD, is what causes people to crash SUV's in
>> inclement
>> weather.
>
> They then hit the brakes to slow down maybe dumping the clutch, maybe
> not as in an auto and as soon as the front tires skidded, the rears
> skidded and off to the low side they went faster than they can blink.
> Just like pulling on the emergency brake half way around a corner. Try
> it, it's fun...
---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
to do with the original post.
> If they had of used the engine to slow down, they would have been able
> to make the corner most likely. Really, try it...
---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
gearing.
> Jeep 4x4 works 'really' well when you learn it.
---Obvious insult ignored.
#178
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
You said "Rolling wheels offer less resistance than one skidding
sideways." The people that buy Antilock Brake Systems don't think so.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Spdloader wrote:
>
> ---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>
> ---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
> wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
>
> ---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
> I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
> lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
> slower than walking to start with.
>
> ---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
> because they have farther to travel.
>
> ---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
> another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
> That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
> to do with the original post.
>
> ---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
> speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
> gearing.
>
> ---Obvious insult ignored.
sideways." The people that buy Antilock Brake Systems don't think so.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Spdloader wrote:
>
> ---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>
> ---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
> wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
>
> ---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
> I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
> lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
> slower than walking to start with.
>
> ---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
> because they have farther to travel.
>
> ---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
> another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
> That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
> to do with the original post.
>
> ---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
> speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
> gearing.
>
> ---Obvious insult ignored.
#179
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
You said "Rolling wheels offer less resistance than one skidding
sideways." The people that buy Antilock Brake Systems don't think so.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Spdloader wrote:
>
> ---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>
> ---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
> wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
>
> ---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
> I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
> lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
> slower than walking to start with.
>
> ---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
> because they have farther to travel.
>
> ---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
> another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
> That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
> to do with the original post.
>
> ---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
> speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
> gearing.
>
> ---Obvious insult ignored.
sideways." The people that buy Antilock Brake Systems don't think so.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Spdloader wrote:
>
> ---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>
> ---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
> wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
>
> ---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
> I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
> lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
> slower than walking to start with.
>
> ---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
> because they have farther to travel.
>
> ---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
> another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
> That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
> to do with the original post.
>
> ---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
> speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
> gearing.
>
> ---Obvious insult ignored.
#180
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Close Call!
You said "Rolling wheels offer less resistance than one skidding
sideways." The people that buy Antilock Brake Systems don't think so.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Spdloader wrote:
>
> ---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>
> ---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
> wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
>
> ---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
> I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
> lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
> slower than walking to start with.
>
> ---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
> because they have farther to travel.
>
> ---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
> another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
> That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
> to do with the original post.
>
> ---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
> speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
> gearing.
>
> ---Obvious insult ignored.
sideways." The people that buy Antilock Brake Systems don't think so.
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Spdloader wrote:
>
> ---if you get it stopped, aren't you in control?
>
> ---the vehicle will steer toward the path of least resistance. Rolling
> wheels offer less resistance than one skidding sideways.
>
> ---The original poster was already out of control, he was ALREADY sliding.
> I'm not debating how to slow down, but how to regain control once you have
> lost it in a slow speed incident. REMEMBER, the OP said he was driving
> slower than walking to start with.
>
> ---You mean, the wheels on the outside of the turn have to turn faster
> because they have farther to travel.
>
> ---I'm sure you've heard the saying "overdriving your brakes"? There is
> another regarding inclement weather, called "overdriving your traction".
> That is what causes those highway accident's in snow. But, this has nothing
> to do with the original post.
>
> ---When you are driving too fast for conditions, abruptly changing the wheel
> speed will break traction, whether you do it with the brakes, or with
> gearing.
>
> ---Obvious insult ignored.