L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

You may see the spare wagon wheel we used on the Butterfield stage
my parent used to get to our ranch in Del Mar, California, on the fence
behind me and my brother: http://www.----------.com/billJerry1948.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" wrote:
>
> For those new to the group, it probably should be pointed out
> periodically that Bill doesn't much care for any jeep model
> newer than the Conestoga... the original one with 72 inch wooden
> wheels and genuine steel belt wrapped carefully around the
> outer wooden rim. Engine options were either 4 or 6 horsepower.

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

You may see the spare wagon wheel we used on the Butterfield stage
my parent used to get to our ranch in Del Mar, California, on the fence
behind me and my brother: http://www.----------.com/billJerry1948.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" wrote:
>
> For those new to the group, it probably should be pointed out
> periodically that Bill doesn't much care for any jeep model
> newer than the Conestoga... the original one with 72 inch wooden
> wheels and genuine steel belt wrapped carefully around the
> outer wooden rim. Engine options were either 4 or 6 horsepower.

L.W.(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=DFill?=) Hughes III

You may see the spare wagon wheel we used on the Butterfield stage
my parent used to get to our ranch in Del Mar, California, on the fence
behind me and my brother: http://www.----------.com/billJerry1948.jpg
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:--------------------

"L0nD0t.$t0we11" wrote:
>
> For those new to the group, it probably should be pointed out
> periodically that Bill doesn't much care for any jeep model
> newer than the Conestoga... the original one with 72 inch wooden
> wheels and genuine steel belt wrapped carefully around the
> outer wooden rim. Engine options were either 4 or 6 horsepower.

Will Honea

I didn't that much of a problem without pulling the cover - except for
my cheap-assed seal puller. Insertion was simple and the cover was
already centered by the previous seal. What you describe seems to be
the way to position the cover if that was pulled but the new seal
should still be positioned correctly (if the old one was).

I do wish I had gone to the trouble of pulling the cover, though,
because I have just enough seepage at the top of the cover to keep
things pretty nasty under the radiator hoses and behind the
compressor.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:25:03 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> If you are going to change the seal, you have to loosen the timing cover
> to do it right.
>
> The seal needs to be installed in the cover, then the balancer slipped
> on, then the cover slides around to center the seal on the balancer,
> then you tighten the cover down, pull off and put the balancer back in
> in for good.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Will Honea wrote:
> >
> > Working from memory, I think that it went flush on the end. I DO know
> > that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding
> > bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my
> > half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break
> > the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off
> > so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it
> > seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and
> > looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a
> > pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get
> > it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal.
> > BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long
> > will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to
> > replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about
> > 3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it.
> > Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing
> > cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 -
> > go figure.
> >
> > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:46:10 UTC Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> > > change in the weather.
> > >
> > > The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> > > ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> > > field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> > > the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> > > not an issue.
> > >
> > > Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> > > get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> > > off. So far, so good.
> > >
> > > I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> > > shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> > > bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> > > it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> > > balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> > > reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> > > into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
> > >
> > > Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> > > seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> > > stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> > > the relationship.
> > >
> > > Such fun I have sometimes...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Will Honea

I didn't that much of a problem without pulling the cover - except for
my cheap-assed seal puller. Insertion was simple and the cover was
already centered by the previous seal. What you describe seems to be
the way to position the cover if that was pulled but the new seal
should still be positioned correctly (if the old one was).

I do wish I had gone to the trouble of pulling the cover, though,
because I have just enough seepage at the top of the cover to keep
things pretty nasty under the radiator hoses and behind the
compressor.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:25:03 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> If you are going to change the seal, you have to loosen the timing cover
> to do it right.
>
> The seal needs to be installed in the cover, then the balancer slipped
> on, then the cover slides around to center the seal on the balancer,
> then you tighten the cover down, pull off and put the balancer back in
> in for good.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Will Honea wrote:
> >
> > Working from memory, I think that it went flush on the end. I DO know
> > that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding
> > bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my
> > half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break
> > the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off
> > so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it
> > seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and
> > looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a
> > pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get
> > it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal.
> > BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long
> > will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to
> > replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about
> > 3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it.
> > Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing
> > cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 -
> > go figure.
> >
> > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:46:10 UTC Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> > > change in the weather.
> > >
> > > The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> > > ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> > > field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> > > the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> > > not an issue.
> > >
> > > Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> > > get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> > > off. So far, so good.
> > >
> > > I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> > > shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> > > bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> > > it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> > > balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> > > reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> > > into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
> > >
> > > Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> > > seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> > > stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> > > the relationship.
> > >
> > > Such fun I have sometimes...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Will Honea

I didn't that much of a problem without pulling the cover - except for
my cheap-assed seal puller. Insertion was simple and the cover was
already centered by the previous seal. What you describe seems to be
the way to position the cover if that was pulled but the new seal
should still be positioned correctly (if the old one was).

I do wish I had gone to the trouble of pulling the cover, though,
because I have just enough seepage at the top of the cover to keep
things pretty nasty under the radiator hoses and behind the
compressor.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:25:03 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> If you are going to change the seal, you have to loosen the timing cover
> to do it right.
>
> The seal needs to be installed in the cover, then the balancer slipped
> on, then the cover slides around to center the seal on the balancer,
> then you tighten the cover down, pull off and put the balancer back in
> in for good.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Will Honea wrote:
> >
> > Working from memory, I think that it went flush on the end. I DO know
> > that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding
> > bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my
> > half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break
> > the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off
> > so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it
> > seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and
> > looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a
> > pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get
> > it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal.
> > BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long
> > will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to
> > replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about
> > 3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it.
> > Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing
> > cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 -
> > go figure.
> >
> > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:46:10 UTC Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> > > change in the weather.
> > >
> > > The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> > > ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> > > field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> > > the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> > > not an issue.
> > >
> > > Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> > > get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> > > off. So far, so good.
> > >
> > > I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> > > shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> > > bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> > > it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> > > balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> > > reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> > > into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
> > >
> > > Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> > > seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> > > stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> > > the relationship.
> > >
> > > Such fun I have sometimes...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Will Honea

I didn't that much of a problem without pulling the cover - except for
my cheap-assed seal puller. Insertion was simple and the cover was
already centered by the previous seal. What you describe seems to be
the way to position the cover if that was pulled but the new seal
should still be positioned correctly (if the old one was).

I do wish I had gone to the trouble of pulling the cover, though,
because I have just enough seepage at the top of the cover to keep
things pretty nasty under the radiator hoses and behind the
compressor.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:25:03 UTC Mike Romain <romainm@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

> If you are going to change the seal, you have to loosen the timing cover
> to do it right.
>
> The seal needs to be installed in the cover, then the balancer slipped
> on, then the cover slides around to center the seal on the balancer,
> then you tighten the cover down, pull off and put the balancer back in
> in for good.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Will Honea wrote:
> >
> > Working from memory, I think that it went flush on the end. I DO know
> > that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding
> > bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my
> > half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break
> > the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off
> > so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it
> > seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and
> > looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a
> > pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get
> > it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal.
> > BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long
> > will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to
> > replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about
> > 3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it.
> > Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing
> > cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 -
> > go figure.
> >
> > On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:46:10 UTC Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> > > change in the weather.
> > >
> > > The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> > > ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> > > field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> > > the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> > > not an issue.
> > >
> > > Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> > > get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> > > off. So far, so good.
> > >
> > > I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> > > shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> > > bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> > > it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> > > balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> > > reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> > > into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
> > >
> > > Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> > > seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> > > stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> > > the relationship.
> > >
> > > Such fun I have sometimes...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>


--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>

Lee Ayrton

Thanks for the help guys, but it turned out that it really _was_ me just
being stupid. I was using the wrong torque value, not the 80 ft/lbs that
the balancer needs. It lines up fine now, and spins without a wobble.

The end of the crank does not sit flush with the face of the balancer, it
is something like 3/32" back.

Thanks again.


On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Lee Ayrton wrote:

>
> OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> change in the weather.
>
> The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> not an issue.
>
> Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> off. So far, so good.
>
> I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
>
> Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> the relationship.
>
> Such fun I have sometimes...
>
>
>

Lee Ayrton

Thanks for the help guys, but it turned out that it really _was_ me just
being stupid. I was using the wrong torque value, not the 80 ft/lbs that
the balancer needs. It lines up fine now, and spins without a wobble.

The end of the crank does not sit flush with the face of the balancer, it
is something like 3/32" back.

Thanks again.


On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Lee Ayrton wrote:

>
> OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> change in the weather.
>
> The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> not an issue.
>
> Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> off. So far, so good.
>
> I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
>
> Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> the relationship.
>
> Such fun I have sometimes...
>
>
>

Lee Ayrton

Thanks for the help guys, but it turned out that it really _was_ me just
being stupid. I was using the wrong torque value, not the 80 ft/lbs that
the balancer needs. It lines up fine now, and spins without a wobble.

The end of the crank does not sit flush with the face of the balancer, it
is something like 3/32" back.

Thanks again.


On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Lee Ayrton wrote:

>
> OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> change in the weather.
>
> The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> not an issue.
>
> Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> off. So far, so good.
>
> I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
>
> Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> the relationship.
>
> Such fun I have sometimes...
>
>
>