Bit Off More Than I Could Chew
04-20-2004, 06:20 PM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Harmonic balancer?
Working from memory, I think that it went flush on the end. I DO know
that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding
bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my
half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break
the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off
so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it
seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and
looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a
pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get
it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal.
BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long
will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to
replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about
3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it.
Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing
cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 -
go figure.
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:46:10 UTC Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com> wrote:
>
> OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> change in the weather.
>
> The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> not an issue.
>
> Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> off. So far, so good.
>
> I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
>
> Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> the relationship.
>
> Such fun I have sometimes...
>
>
--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding
bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my
half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break
the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off
so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it
seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and
looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a
pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get
it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal.
BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long
will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to
replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about
3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it.
Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing
cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 -
go figure.
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:46:10 UTC Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com> wrote:
>
> OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> change in the weather.
>
> The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> not an issue.
>
> Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> off. So far, so good.
>
> I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
>
> Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> the relationship.
>
> Such fun I have sometimes...
>
>
--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
04-20-2004, 06:20 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Harmonic balancer?
Working from memory, I think that it went flush on the end. I DO know
that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding
bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my
half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break
the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off
so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it
seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and
looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a
pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get
it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal.
BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long
will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to
replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about
3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it.
Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing
cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 -
go figure.
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:46:10 UTC Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com> wrote:
>
> OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> change in the weather.
>
> The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> not an issue.
>
> Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> off. So far, so good.
>
> I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
>
> Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> the relationship.
>
> Such fun I have sometimes...
>
>
--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding
bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my
half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break
the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off
so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it
seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and
looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a
pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get
it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal.
BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long
will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to
replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about
3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it.
Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing
cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 -
go figure.
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:46:10 UTC Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com> wrote:
>
> OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> change in the weather.
>
> The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> not an issue.
>
> Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> off. So far, so good.
>
> I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
>
> Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> the relationship.
>
> Such fun I have sometimes...
>
>
--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
04-20-2004, 06:20 PM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Harmonic balancer?
Working from memory, I think that it went flush on the end. I DO know
that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding
bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my
half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break
the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off
so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it
seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and
looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a
pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get
it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal.
BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long
will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to
replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about
3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it.
Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing
cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 -
go figure.
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:46:10 UTC Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com> wrote:
>
> OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> change in the weather.
>
> The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> not an issue.
>
> Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> off. So far, so good.
>
> I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
>
> Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> the relationship.
>
> Such fun I have sometimes...
>
>
--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
that that bolt in the crank is not fragile! I had to bolt a holding
bar onto the balancer then jam that against the frame while me and my
half inch breaker bar joined forces with about 3 feet of pipe to break
the sucker loose - just before I gave up and pulled the front end off
so I could reach it with an impact wrench. I'm guessing now, but it
seems to me that the book called for 75 ft pounds (OK, I got up and
looked. It's 80 ft pounds lubricated - that's snug). Mine was a
pretty snug fit over the crank and I used several washer stacks to get
it down but I also lubed the shaft/bore while I was greasing the seal.
BTW, I hope you changed the seal while it was out - sitting that long
will probably result in another trip into it pretty soon anyway to
replace the dried out and hardened one. I think mine lasted about
3-4000 miles after changing the balancer before the I was back at it.
Odd note: they wanted $28 for the seal alone while the whole timing
cover gasket set with the seal included was only something like $7 -
go figure.
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 18:46:10 UTC Lee Ayrton <layrton@panix.com> wrote:
>
> OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> change in the weather.
>
> The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the outer
> ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block under
> the balancer. It now has new bearings, new seals, etc. anyway so that's
> not an issue.
>
> Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped it
> off. So far, so good.
>
> I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with successively
> shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the pulley
> bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and alternator,
> it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further? I'm
> reluctant to force the damned thing (visions of the crank threads turning
> into a pile of fine shavings dance in my head) unless I really need to.
>
> Should the face of the crank be flush with the face of the balancer? Mine
> seems to be sitting back at that small step inside the balancer, but --
> stupidly -- I didn't look at the original before pulling it apart to see
> the relationship.
>
> Such fun I have sometimes...
>
>
--
Will Honea <whonea@codenet.net>
04-20-2004, 06:49 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bit Off More Than I Could Chew
Real Jeep frames are open channel like the commercial trucks,
therefore they don't hold water and rust out. Notice there's not mention
of rust on this CJ-3B frame restoration:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Owners/Ahlberg1.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Is that a "Real Jeep" chassis :-)
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
therefore they don't hold water and rust out. Notice there's not mention
of rust on this CJ-3B frame restoration:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Owners/Ahlberg1.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Is that a "Real Jeep" chassis :-)
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
04-20-2004, 06:49 PM
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bit Off More Than I Could Chew
Real Jeep frames are open channel like the commercial trucks,
therefore they don't hold water and rust out. Notice there's not mention
of rust on this CJ-3B frame restoration:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Owners/Ahlberg1.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Is that a "Real Jeep" chassis :-)
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
therefore they don't hold water and rust out. Notice there's not mention
of rust on this CJ-3B frame restoration:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Owners/Ahlberg1.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Is that a "Real Jeep" chassis :-)
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
04-20-2004, 06:49 PM
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bit Off More Than I Could Chew
Real Jeep frames are open channel like the commercial trucks,
therefore they don't hold water and rust out. Notice there's not mention
of rust on this CJ-3B frame restoration:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Owners/Ahlberg1.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Is that a "Real Jeep" chassis :-)
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
therefore they don't hold water and rust out. Notice there's not mention
of rust on this CJ-3B frame restoration:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Owners/Ahlberg1.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Is that a "Real Jeep" chassis :-)
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
04-20-2004, 06:49 PM
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Bit Off More Than I Could Chew
Real Jeep frames are open channel like the commercial trucks,
therefore they don't hold water and rust out. Notice there's not mention
of rust on this CJ-3B frame restoration:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Owners/Ahlberg1.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Is that a "Real Jeep" chassis :-)
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
therefore they don't hold water and rust out. Notice there's not mention
of rust on this CJ-3B frame restoration:
http://www.apple.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Owners/Ahlberg1.html
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Dave Milne wrote:
>
> Is that a "Real Jeep" chassis :-)
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '91 Grand Wagoneer, '99 TJ
04-20-2004, 07:09 PM
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Harmonic balancer?
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:5dhhc.63107$ec1.11712@okepread01...
> Lee Ayrton did pass the time by typing:
> > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> > change in the weather.
>
> It's a Jeep thing. :)
>
> > The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the
outer
> > ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> > field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block
under
> > the balancer.
>
> That would do it.
>
> > Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> > get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped
it
> > off. So far, so good.
>
> Been there, cept I had to pull the radiator.
>
> > I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with
successively
> > shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the
pulley
> > bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and
alternator,
> > it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> > balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further?
>
Sometimes the key on the crank is the problem. It is usually a woodruff key
which is basically a half round shape on the part that goes into the keyway
in the crank snout. The key can catch on a burr in the balancer keyway and
the back of the key will raise up, essentially forming a lock. Personally,
if it isn't too much hassle to pop it back off, I would do that. Then check
the key and the slot in the new balancer for burrs and sharp edges. A small,
fine file, or one of your wife's emory boards for doing her nails will work
just fine. Make sure the key is all the way down in the slot and also make
sure that the tup surface of the key is parallel with the crank snout. I
usually put a little anti-sieze in the balancer hole to kind of lubricate
things a little. Not much of it makes it in because it is a press fit, but
it does help.
Chris
04-20-2004, 07:09 PM
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Harmonic balancer?
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:5dhhc.63107$ec1.11712@okepread01...
> Lee Ayrton did pass the time by typing:
> > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> > change in the weather.
>
> It's a Jeep thing. :)
>
> > The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the
outer
> > ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> > field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block
under
> > the balancer.
>
> That would do it.
>
> > Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> > get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped
it
> > off. So far, so good.
>
> Been there, cept I had to pull the radiator.
>
> > I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with
successively
> > shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the
pulley
> > bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and
alternator,
> > it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> > balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further?
>
Sometimes the key on the crank is the problem. It is usually a woodruff key
which is basically a half round shape on the part that goes into the keyway
in the crank snout. The key can catch on a burr in the balancer keyway and
the back of the key will raise up, essentially forming a lock. Personally,
if it isn't too much hassle to pop it back off, I would do that. Then check
the key and the slot in the new balancer for burrs and sharp edges. A small,
fine file, or one of your wife's emory boards for doing her nails will work
just fine. Make sure the key is all the way down in the slot and also make
sure that the tup surface of the key is parallel with the crank snout. I
usually put a little anti-sieze in the balancer hole to kind of lubricate
things a little. Not much of it makes it in because it is a press fit, but
it does help.
Chris
04-20-2004, 07:09 PM
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Harmonic balancer?
"DougW" <post.replies@invalid.address> wrote in message
news:5dhhc.63107$ec1.11712@okepread01...
> Lee Ayrton did pass the time by typing:
> > OK, help me out, please. I'm feeling stupid here, it must be the sudden
> > change in the weather.
>
> It's a Jeep thing. :)
>
> > The harmonic balancer in my `79 CJ-5 258 had a bit of wobble in the
outer
> > ring -- probably as a result of that engine, without Jeep, sitting in a
> > field for a decade with the front of the engine held up with a block
under
> > the balancer.
>
> That would do it.
>
> > Today's a nice day to get greasy, so I propped the radiator up enough to
> > get a socket on the puller on the balancer through the grill and popped
it
> > off. So far, so good.
>
> Been there, cept I had to pull the radiator.
>
> > I worked the new, out of the box, balancer on in stages with
successively
> > shorter bolts. The real bolt and spacer seem to be seated, but the
pulley
> > bolted to the balancer isn't lining up with the water pump and
alternator,
> > it is about 1/8" too far forward. Is there a wrong but nearly fits
> > balancer for this engine, or does it simply need to go back further?
>
Sometimes the key on the crank is the problem. It is usually a woodruff key
which is basically a half round shape on the part that goes into the keyway
in the crank snout. The key can catch on a burr in the balancer keyway and
the back of the key will raise up, essentially forming a lock. Personally,
if it isn't too much hassle to pop it back off, I would do that. Then check
the key and the slot in the new balancer for burrs and sharp edges. A small,
fine file, or one of your wife's emory boards for doing her nails will work
just fine. Make sure the key is all the way down in the slot and also make
sure that the tup surface of the key is parallel with the crank snout. I
usually put a little anti-sieze in the balancer hole to kind of lubricate
things a little. Not much of it makes it in because it is a press fit, but
it does help.
Chris