134a Refrigerant
07-16-2005 | 05:15 PM
#3261
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" wrote in message: We have swap coolers out here in
our deserts, but I can't imagine
how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown through
it. Would it still use something like freon to take the heat out of the
building?'
Water is not the refrigerant. The water is used instead of air on the
condenser. Water is used in a lot of system that have a high heat load.
The water helps condense the refrigerant back into a liquid after it has
been compressed. The liquid refrigerant then passes through a metering
device (capillary tube, orifice, expansion valve) to feed the evaporator.
The air that passes over the evaporator transfers heat with the refrigerant.
This turns the freon back to a gas. It then gets compressed again and the
cycle starts over.
If water is used on the condenser, the water is either disposed or recycled
in a closed loop system. Water can come from the city supply and use to
supply water to your water heater. What not used is sent to the sewer,
drain or pumped into the ground. If ground water is used, water is pumped
to the condenser and back to the ground.
If the system is closed loop, the water is circulated from the condenser in
to a tower called a cooling water tower. Air then cools the water back off
and it is pumped back to system. Make up water is needed and the water must
be chemically treated to prevent algae and conductivity problems with the
metal. The cooling water tower usually has a fan that pulls air upward
while the water drains downward.
These type of system are used where they may be one unit supplying multiple
evaporators. This allows individual zones to be adjust their temperature
without affecting other zones. In order for the unit to run properly there
is probably a spill back line that is adjusted to allow minimum refrigerant
flow yet will close down when a load is needed, This is one problem area on
the units is the spill back valve. They can stick in one position thus
causing HVAC problems.
Sarge
our deserts, but I can't imagine
how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown through
it. Would it still use something like freon to take the heat out of the
building?'
Water is not the refrigerant. The water is used instead of air on the
condenser. Water is used in a lot of system that have a high heat load.
The water helps condense the refrigerant back into a liquid after it has
been compressed. The liquid refrigerant then passes through a metering
device (capillary tube, orifice, expansion valve) to feed the evaporator.
The air that passes over the evaporator transfers heat with the refrigerant.
This turns the freon back to a gas. It then gets compressed again and the
cycle starts over.
If water is used on the condenser, the water is either disposed or recycled
in a closed loop system. Water can come from the city supply and use to
supply water to your water heater. What not used is sent to the sewer,
drain or pumped into the ground. If ground water is used, water is pumped
to the condenser and back to the ground.
If the system is closed loop, the water is circulated from the condenser in
to a tower called a cooling water tower. Air then cools the water back off
and it is pumped back to system. Make up water is needed and the water must
be chemically treated to prevent algae and conductivity problems with the
metal. The cooling water tower usually has a fan that pulls air upward
while the water drains downward.
These type of system are used where they may be one unit supplying multiple
evaporators. This allows individual zones to be adjust their temperature
without affecting other zones. In order for the unit to run properly there
is probably a spill back line that is adjusted to allow minimum refrigerant
flow yet will close down when a load is needed, This is one problem area on
the units is the spill back valve. They can stick in one position thus
causing HVAC problems.
Sarge
07-16-2005 | 05:42 PM
#3262
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Thanks Sarge.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> Water is not the refrigerant. The water is used instead of air on the
> condenser. Water is used in a lot of system that have a high heat load.
> The water helps condense the refrigerant back into a liquid after it has
> been compressed. The liquid refrigerant then passes through a metering
> device (capillary tube, orifice, expansion valve) to feed the evaporator.
> The air that passes over the evaporator transfers heat with the refrigerant.
> This turns the freon back to a gas. It then gets compressed again and the
> cycle starts over.
>
> If water is used on the condenser, the water is either disposed or recycled
> in a closed loop system. Water can come from the city supply and use to
> supply water to your water heater. What not used is sent to the sewer,
> drain or pumped into the ground. If ground water is used, water is pumped
> to the condenser and back to the ground.
>
> If the system is closed loop, the water is circulated from the condenser in
> to a tower called a cooling water tower. Air then cools the water back off
> and it is pumped back to system. Make up water is needed and the water must
> be chemically treated to prevent algae and conductivity problems with the
> metal. The cooling water tower usually has a fan that pulls air upward
> while the water drains downward.
>
> These type of system are used where they may be one unit supplying multiple
> evaporators. This allows individual zones to be adjust their temperature
> without affecting other zones. In order for the unit to run properly there
> is probably a spill back line that is adjusted to allow minimum refrigerant
> flow yet will close down when a load is needed, This is one problem area on
> the units is the spill back valve. They can stick in one position thus
> causing HVAC problems.
>
> Sarge
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> Water is not the refrigerant. The water is used instead of air on the
> condenser. Water is used in a lot of system that have a high heat load.
> The water helps condense the refrigerant back into a liquid after it has
> been compressed. The liquid refrigerant then passes through a metering
> device (capillary tube, orifice, expansion valve) to feed the evaporator.
> The air that passes over the evaporator transfers heat with the refrigerant.
> This turns the freon back to a gas. It then gets compressed again and the
> cycle starts over.
>
> If water is used on the condenser, the water is either disposed or recycled
> in a closed loop system. Water can come from the city supply and use to
> supply water to your water heater. What not used is sent to the sewer,
> drain or pumped into the ground. If ground water is used, water is pumped
> to the condenser and back to the ground.
>
> If the system is closed loop, the water is circulated from the condenser in
> to a tower called a cooling water tower. Air then cools the water back off
> and it is pumped back to system. Make up water is needed and the water must
> be chemically treated to prevent algae and conductivity problems with the
> metal. The cooling water tower usually has a fan that pulls air upward
> while the water drains downward.
>
> These type of system are used where they may be one unit supplying multiple
> evaporators. This allows individual zones to be adjust their temperature
> without affecting other zones. In order for the unit to run properly there
> is probably a spill back line that is adjusted to allow minimum refrigerant
> flow yet will close down when a load is needed, This is one problem area on
> the units is the spill back valve. They can stick in one position thus
> causing HVAC problems.
>
> Sarge
07-16-2005 | 05:42 PM
#3263
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Thanks Sarge.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> Water is not the refrigerant. The water is used instead of air on the
> condenser. Water is used in a lot of system that have a high heat load.
> The water helps condense the refrigerant back into a liquid after it has
> been compressed. The liquid refrigerant then passes through a metering
> device (capillary tube, orifice, expansion valve) to feed the evaporator.
> The air that passes over the evaporator transfers heat with the refrigerant.
> This turns the freon back to a gas. It then gets compressed again and the
> cycle starts over.
>
> If water is used on the condenser, the water is either disposed or recycled
> in a closed loop system. Water can come from the city supply and use to
> supply water to your water heater. What not used is sent to the sewer,
> drain or pumped into the ground. If ground water is used, water is pumped
> to the condenser and back to the ground.
>
> If the system is closed loop, the water is circulated from the condenser in
> to a tower called a cooling water tower. Air then cools the water back off
> and it is pumped back to system. Make up water is needed and the water must
> be chemically treated to prevent algae and conductivity problems with the
> metal. The cooling water tower usually has a fan that pulls air upward
> while the water drains downward.
>
> These type of system are used where they may be one unit supplying multiple
> evaporators. This allows individual zones to be adjust their temperature
> without affecting other zones. In order for the unit to run properly there
> is probably a spill back line that is adjusted to allow minimum refrigerant
> flow yet will close down when a load is needed, This is one problem area on
> the units is the spill back valve. They can stick in one position thus
> causing HVAC problems.
>
> Sarge
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> Water is not the refrigerant. The water is used instead of air on the
> condenser. Water is used in a lot of system that have a high heat load.
> The water helps condense the refrigerant back into a liquid after it has
> been compressed. The liquid refrigerant then passes through a metering
> device (capillary tube, orifice, expansion valve) to feed the evaporator.
> The air that passes over the evaporator transfers heat with the refrigerant.
> This turns the freon back to a gas. It then gets compressed again and the
> cycle starts over.
>
> If water is used on the condenser, the water is either disposed or recycled
> in a closed loop system. Water can come from the city supply and use to
> supply water to your water heater. What not used is sent to the sewer,
> drain or pumped into the ground. If ground water is used, water is pumped
> to the condenser and back to the ground.
>
> If the system is closed loop, the water is circulated from the condenser in
> to a tower called a cooling water tower. Air then cools the water back off
> and it is pumped back to system. Make up water is needed and the water must
> be chemically treated to prevent algae and conductivity problems with the
> metal. The cooling water tower usually has a fan that pulls air upward
> while the water drains downward.
>
> These type of system are used where they may be one unit supplying multiple
> evaporators. This allows individual zones to be adjust their temperature
> without affecting other zones. In order for the unit to run properly there
> is probably a spill back line that is adjusted to allow minimum refrigerant
> flow yet will close down when a load is needed, This is one problem area on
> the units is the spill back valve. They can stick in one position thus
> causing HVAC problems.
>
> Sarge
07-16-2005 | 05:42 PM
#3264
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Thanks Sarge.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> Water is not the refrigerant. The water is used instead of air on the
> condenser. Water is used in a lot of system that have a high heat load.
> The water helps condense the refrigerant back into a liquid after it has
> been compressed. The liquid refrigerant then passes through a metering
> device (capillary tube, orifice, expansion valve) to feed the evaporator.
> The air that passes over the evaporator transfers heat with the refrigerant.
> This turns the freon back to a gas. It then gets compressed again and the
> cycle starts over.
>
> If water is used on the condenser, the water is either disposed or recycled
> in a closed loop system. Water can come from the city supply and use to
> supply water to your water heater. What not used is sent to the sewer,
> drain or pumped into the ground. If ground water is used, water is pumped
> to the condenser and back to the ground.
>
> If the system is closed loop, the water is circulated from the condenser in
> to a tower called a cooling water tower. Air then cools the water back off
> and it is pumped back to system. Make up water is needed and the water must
> be chemically treated to prevent algae and conductivity problems with the
> metal. The cooling water tower usually has a fan that pulls air upward
> while the water drains downward.
>
> These type of system are used where they may be one unit supplying multiple
> evaporators. This allows individual zones to be adjust their temperature
> without affecting other zones. In order for the unit to run properly there
> is probably a spill back line that is adjusted to allow minimum refrigerant
> flow yet will close down when a load is needed, This is one problem area on
> the units is the spill back valve. They can stick in one position thus
> causing HVAC problems.
>
> Sarge
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> Water is not the refrigerant. The water is used instead of air on the
> condenser. Water is used in a lot of system that have a high heat load.
> The water helps condense the refrigerant back into a liquid after it has
> been compressed. The liquid refrigerant then passes through a metering
> device (capillary tube, orifice, expansion valve) to feed the evaporator.
> The air that passes over the evaporator transfers heat with the refrigerant.
> This turns the freon back to a gas. It then gets compressed again and the
> cycle starts over.
>
> If water is used on the condenser, the water is either disposed or recycled
> in a closed loop system. Water can come from the city supply and use to
> supply water to your water heater. What not used is sent to the sewer,
> drain or pumped into the ground. If ground water is used, water is pumped
> to the condenser and back to the ground.
>
> If the system is closed loop, the water is circulated from the condenser in
> to a tower called a cooling water tower. Air then cools the water back off
> and it is pumped back to system. Make up water is needed and the water must
> be chemically treated to prevent algae and conductivity problems with the
> metal. The cooling water tower usually has a fan that pulls air upward
> while the water drains downward.
>
> These type of system are used where they may be one unit supplying multiple
> evaporators. This allows individual zones to be adjust their temperature
> without affecting other zones. In order for the unit to run properly there
> is probably a spill back line that is adjusted to allow minimum refrigerant
> flow yet will close down when a load is needed, This is one problem area on
> the units is the spill back valve. They can stick in one position thus
> causing HVAC problems.
>
> Sarge
07-16-2005 | 05:42 PM
#3265
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Thanks Sarge.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> Water is not the refrigerant. The water is used instead of air on the
> condenser. Water is used in a lot of system that have a high heat load.
> The water helps condense the refrigerant back into a liquid after it has
> been compressed. The liquid refrigerant then passes through a metering
> device (capillary tube, orifice, expansion valve) to feed the evaporator.
> The air that passes over the evaporator transfers heat with the refrigerant.
> This turns the freon back to a gas. It then gets compressed again and the
> cycle starts over.
>
> If water is used on the condenser, the water is either disposed or recycled
> in a closed loop system. Water can come from the city supply and use to
> supply water to your water heater. What not used is sent to the sewer,
> drain or pumped into the ground. If ground water is used, water is pumped
> to the condenser and back to the ground.
>
> If the system is closed loop, the water is circulated from the condenser in
> to a tower called a cooling water tower. Air then cools the water back off
> and it is pumped back to system. Make up water is needed and the water must
> be chemically treated to prevent algae and conductivity problems with the
> metal. The cooling water tower usually has a fan that pulls air upward
> while the water drains downward.
>
> These type of system are used where they may be one unit supplying multiple
> evaporators. This allows individual zones to be adjust their temperature
> without affecting other zones. In order for the unit to run properly there
> is probably a spill back line that is adjusted to allow minimum refrigerant
> flow yet will close down when a load is needed, This is one problem area on
> the units is the spill back valve. They can stick in one position thus
> causing HVAC problems.
>
> Sarge
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> Water is not the refrigerant. The water is used instead of air on the
> condenser. Water is used in a lot of system that have a high heat load.
> The water helps condense the refrigerant back into a liquid after it has
> been compressed. The liquid refrigerant then passes through a metering
> device (capillary tube, orifice, expansion valve) to feed the evaporator.
> The air that passes over the evaporator transfers heat with the refrigerant.
> This turns the freon back to a gas. It then gets compressed again and the
> cycle starts over.
>
> If water is used on the condenser, the water is either disposed or recycled
> in a closed loop system. Water can come from the city supply and use to
> supply water to your water heater. What not used is sent to the sewer,
> drain or pumped into the ground. If ground water is used, water is pumped
> to the condenser and back to the ground.
>
> If the system is closed loop, the water is circulated from the condenser in
> to a tower called a cooling water tower. Air then cools the water back off
> and it is pumped back to system. Make up water is needed and the water must
> be chemically treated to prevent algae and conductivity problems with the
> metal. The cooling water tower usually has a fan that pulls air upward
> while the water drains downward.
>
> These type of system are used where they may be one unit supplying multiple
> evaporators. This allows individual zones to be adjust their temperature
> without affecting other zones. In order for the unit to run properly there
> is probably a spill back line that is adjusted to allow minimum refrigerant
> flow yet will close down when a load is needed, This is one problem area on
> the units is the spill back valve. They can stick in one position thus
> causing HVAC problems.
>
> Sarge
07-18-2005 | 12:08 AM
#3266
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message news:42D7F3F6.C5230958@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > It would be much easier to let others tell the tale...
> >
> > http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/we...mical+compound
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_compound
> >
> > Particularly edifying are the following, from Wiki:
> >
> > <>
> > A chemical compound is a chemical substance formed from two or more elements, with a fixed ratio determining the composition. For example, dihydrogen monoxide (water, H2O) is a compound composed of two hydrogen atoms for every oxygen atom.
> >
> > In general, this fixed ratio must be fixed due to some sort of physical property, rather than an arbitrary man-made selection. This is why materials such as brass, the superconductor YBCO, the semiconductor aluminium gallium arsenide, or chocolate are considered mixtures or alloys rather than compounds.
> > </>
> > __
> > Steve
> > .
>The operative word in my question was "YOU" and you failed again.
I believe that I told you what I think the definitions are...
don't you think that I knew this before I googled them?
Why else would I say that you don't have a clue as to
the proper chemistry definition of a mixture or a compound?
At least now you know... that is, if you'll believe some Liberal
Academic sources... I wonder where the Republicon Non-
Academic sources are?
__
Steve
..
07-18-2005 | 12:08 AM
#3267
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message news:42D7F3F6.C5230958@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > It would be much easier to let others tell the tale...
> >
> > http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/we...mical+compound
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_compound
> >
> > Particularly edifying are the following, from Wiki:
> >
> > <>
> > A chemical compound is a chemical substance formed from two or more elements, with a fixed ratio determining the composition. For example, dihydrogen monoxide (water, H2O) is a compound composed of two hydrogen atoms for every oxygen atom.
> >
> > In general, this fixed ratio must be fixed due to some sort of physical property, rather than an arbitrary man-made selection. This is why materials such as brass, the superconductor YBCO, the semiconductor aluminium gallium arsenide, or chocolate are considered mixtures or alloys rather than compounds.
> > </>
> > __
> > Steve
> > .
>The operative word in my question was "YOU" and you failed again.
I believe that I told you what I think the definitions are...
don't you think that I knew this before I googled them?
Why else would I say that you don't have a clue as to
the proper chemistry definition of a mixture or a compound?
At least now you know... that is, if you'll believe some Liberal
Academic sources... I wonder where the Republicon Non-
Academic sources are?
__
Steve
..
07-18-2005 | 12:08 AM
#3268
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message news:42D7F3F6.C5230958@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > It would be much easier to let others tell the tale...
> >
> > http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/we...mical+compound
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_compound
> >
> > Particularly edifying are the following, from Wiki:
> >
> > <>
> > A chemical compound is a chemical substance formed from two or more elements, with a fixed ratio determining the composition. For example, dihydrogen monoxide (water, H2O) is a compound composed of two hydrogen atoms for every oxygen atom.
> >
> > In general, this fixed ratio must be fixed due to some sort of physical property, rather than an arbitrary man-made selection. This is why materials such as brass, the superconductor YBCO, the semiconductor aluminium gallium arsenide, or chocolate are considered mixtures or alloys rather than compounds.
> > </>
> > __
> > Steve
> > .
>The operative word in my question was "YOU" and you failed again.
I believe that I told you what I think the definitions are...
don't you think that I knew this before I googled them?
Why else would I say that you don't have a clue as to
the proper chemistry definition of a mixture or a compound?
At least now you know... that is, if you'll believe some Liberal
Academic sources... I wonder where the Republicon Non-
Academic sources are?
__
Steve
..
07-18-2005 | 12:08 AM
#3269
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"L.W. (ßill) ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message news:42D7F3F6.C5230958@***.net...
> Stephen Cowell wrote:
> >
> > It would be much easier to let others tell the tale...
> >
> > http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/we...mical+compound
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_compound
> >
> > Particularly edifying are the following, from Wiki:
> >
> > <>
> > A chemical compound is a chemical substance formed from two or more elements, with a fixed ratio determining the composition. For example, dihydrogen monoxide (water, H2O) is a compound composed of two hydrogen atoms for every oxygen atom.
> >
> > In general, this fixed ratio must be fixed due to some sort of physical property, rather than an arbitrary man-made selection. This is why materials such as brass, the superconductor YBCO, the semiconductor aluminium gallium arsenide, or chocolate are considered mixtures or alloys rather than compounds.
> > </>
> > __
> > Steve
> > .
>The operative word in my question was "YOU" and you failed again.
I believe that I told you what I think the definitions are...
don't you think that I knew this before I googled them?
Why else would I say that you don't have a clue as to
the proper chemistry definition of a mixture or a compound?
At least now you know... that is, if you'll believe some Liberal
Academic sources... I wonder where the Republicon Non-
Academic sources are?
__
Steve
..
07-18-2005 | 12:15 AM
#3270
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Nathan W. Collier" <MontanaJeeper@aol.com> wrote in message news:11dfi9dabg66hdc@corp.supernews.com...
> "Stephen Cowell" <scowell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:t2JBe.1503$zw4.1074@newssvr12.news.prodigy.co m...
> > You don't understand the difference between
> > a mixture and a chemical compound.
>
> yes oh yes, only you could possibly know that. <rolling eyes>
>
> typical ego of a liberal, nobody knows but you.
Ad Hominem... abusive. Red Herring, as well.
Recall your big howler...
> yeah no ----! refrigerant is a compound, a MIXTURE and when you add up all
> the components they are heavier than the individual components.
Two big mistakes... mistaking compound for mixture, and
saying that the mixture weighs more than the individual
components. I almost pissed myself, laughing!
I assure you that there are plenty of folk of both
political parties who understand the issue here...
you just happen to be one of the ignorant Righties. : P
__
Steve
..