134a Refrigerant
07-16-2005 | 03:32 PM
#3241
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Sarge" <licker@lickersacademy.edu> wrote in message
news:dbb7m501phj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954.
some of those older units are amazing. i bet theyre still running when
equipment installed today is long since dead.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:dbb7m501phj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954.
some of those older units are amazing. i bet theyre still running when
equipment installed today is long since dead.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 03:43 PM
#3242
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Hi Sarge,
We have swap coolers out here in our deserts, but I can't imagine
how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
through it. Would it still use something like freon to take the heat out
of the building?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
> work on old York commercial A/C units?
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
> experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
> the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
> uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
> sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
> than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
> to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
> mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
> spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
>
> What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
> refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
> to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
> tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
> chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
> will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
> due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
> rating and less maintenance.
>
> I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
> some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
> do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
> replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
>
> We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
> to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
> It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
> thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
> million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
> when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
> just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
>
> The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
> but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
> knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
> vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
> by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
> unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
> outside.
>
> Sarge
We have swap coolers out here in our deserts, but I can't imagine
how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
through it. Would it still use something like freon to take the heat out
of the building?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
> work on old York commercial A/C units?
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
> experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
> the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
> uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
> sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
> than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
> to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
> mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
> spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
>
> What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
> refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
> to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
> tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
> chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
> will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
> due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
> rating and less maintenance.
>
> I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
> some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
> do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
> replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
>
> We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
> to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
> It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
> thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
> million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
> when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
> just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
>
> The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
> but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
> knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
> vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
> by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
> unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
> outside.
>
> Sarge
07-16-2005 | 03:43 PM
#3243
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Hi Sarge,
We have swap coolers out here in our deserts, but I can't imagine
how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
through it. Would it still use something like freon to take the heat out
of the building?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
> work on old York commercial A/C units?
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
> experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
> the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
> uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
> sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
> than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
> to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
> mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
> spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
>
> What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
> refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
> to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
> tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
> chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
> will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
> due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
> rating and less maintenance.
>
> I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
> some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
> do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
> replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
>
> We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
> to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
> It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
> thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
> million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
> when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
> just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
>
> The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
> but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
> knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
> vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
> by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
> unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
> outside.
>
> Sarge
We have swap coolers out here in our deserts, but I can't imagine
how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
through it. Would it still use something like freon to take the heat out
of the building?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
> work on old York commercial A/C units?
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
> experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
> the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
> uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
> sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
> than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
> to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
> mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
> spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
>
> What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
> refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
> to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
> tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
> chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
> will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
> due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
> rating and less maintenance.
>
> I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
> some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
> do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
> replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
>
> We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
> to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
> It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
> thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
> million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
> when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
> just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
>
> The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
> but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
> knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
> vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
> by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
> unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
> outside.
>
> Sarge
07-16-2005 | 03:43 PM
#3244
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Hi Sarge,
We have swap coolers out here in our deserts, but I can't imagine
how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
through it. Would it still use something like freon to take the heat out
of the building?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
> work on old York commercial A/C units?
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
> experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
> the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
> uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
> sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
> than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
> to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
> mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
> spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
>
> What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
> refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
> to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
> tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
> chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
> will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
> due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
> rating and less maintenance.
>
> I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
> some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
> do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
> replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
>
> We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
> to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
> It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
> thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
> million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
> when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
> just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
>
> The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
> but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
> knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
> vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
> by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
> unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
> outside.
>
> Sarge
We have swap coolers out here in our deserts, but I can't imagine
how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
through it. Would it still use something like freon to take the heat out
of the building?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
> work on old York commercial A/C units?
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
> experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
> the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
> uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
> sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
> than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
> to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
> mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
> spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
>
> What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
> refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
> to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
> tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
> chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
> will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
> due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
> rating and less maintenance.
>
> I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
> some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
> do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
> replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
>
> We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
> to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
> It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
> thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
> million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
> when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
> just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
>
> The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
> but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
> knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
> vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
> by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
> unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
> outside.
>
> Sarge
07-16-2005 | 03:43 PM
#3245
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
Hi Sarge,
We have swap coolers out here in our deserts, but I can't imagine
how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
through it. Would it still use something like freon to take the heat out
of the building?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
> work on old York commercial A/C units?
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
> experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
> the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
> uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
> sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
> than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
> to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
> mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
> spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
>
> What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
> refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
> to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
> tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
> chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
> will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
> due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
> rating and less maintenance.
>
> I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
> some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
> do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
> replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
>
> We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
> to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
> It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
> thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
> million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
> when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
> just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
>
> The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
> but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
> knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
> vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
> by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
> unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
> outside.
>
> Sarge
We have swap coolers out here in our deserts, but I can't imagine
how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
through it. Would it still use something like freon to take the heat out
of the building?
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
mailto:-------------------- http://www.----------.com/
Sarge wrote:
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
> work on old York commercial A/C units?
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
> experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
> the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
> uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
> sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
> than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
> to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
> mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
> spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
>
> What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
> refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
> to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
> tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
> chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
> will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
> due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
> rating and less maintenance.
>
> I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
> some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
> do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
> replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
>
> We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
> to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
> It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
> thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
> million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
> when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
> just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
>
> The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
> but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
> knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
> vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
> by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
> unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
> outside.
>
> Sarge
07-16-2005 | 03:48 PM
#3246
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42D96377.BD7D5AB@***.net...
> We have swap coolers out here in our deserts,
swamp coolers suck in most applications. totally different principle from a
water cooled condensor.
> but I can't imagine
> how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
> efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
> through it.
take a red hot piece of steel and blow a fan over it. now take a red hot
piece of steel and dunk it under water. which cools it faster? :-) water
cooled condensors run hot refrigerant through a tube that is inside another
tube running water through it. its very effiicient, effective, and quiet.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:42D96377.BD7D5AB@***.net...
> We have swap coolers out here in our deserts,
swamp coolers suck in most applications. totally different principle from a
water cooled condensor.
> but I can't imagine
> how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
> efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
> through it.
take a red hot piece of steel and blow a fan over it. now take a red hot
piece of steel and dunk it under water. which cools it faster? :-) water
cooled condensors run hot refrigerant through a tube that is inside another
tube running water through it. its very effiicient, effective, and quiet.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 03:48 PM
#3247
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42D96377.BD7D5AB@***.net...
> We have swap coolers out here in our deserts,
swamp coolers suck in most applications. totally different principle from a
water cooled condensor.
> but I can't imagine
> how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
> efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
> through it.
take a red hot piece of steel and blow a fan over it. now take a red hot
piece of steel and dunk it under water. which cools it faster? :-) water
cooled condensors run hot refrigerant through a tube that is inside another
tube running water through it. its very effiicient, effective, and quiet.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:42D96377.BD7D5AB@***.net...
> We have swap coolers out here in our deserts,
swamp coolers suck in most applications. totally different principle from a
water cooled condensor.
> but I can't imagine
> how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
> efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
> through it.
take a red hot piece of steel and blow a fan over it. now take a red hot
piece of steel and dunk it under water. which cools it faster? :-) water
cooled condensors run hot refrigerant through a tube that is inside another
tube running water through it. its very effiicient, effective, and quiet.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 03:48 PM
#3248
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42D96377.BD7D5AB@***.net...
> We have swap coolers out here in our deserts,
swamp coolers suck in most applications. totally different principle from a
water cooled condensor.
> but I can't imagine
> how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
> efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
> through it.
take a red hot piece of steel and blow a fan over it. now take a red hot
piece of steel and dunk it under water. which cools it faster? :-) water
cooled condensors run hot refrigerant through a tube that is inside another
tube running water through it. its very effiicient, effective, and quiet.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:42D96377.BD7D5AB@***.net...
> We have swap coolers out here in our deserts,
swamp coolers suck in most applications. totally different principle from a
water cooled condensor.
> but I can't imagine
> how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
> efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
> through it.
take a red hot piece of steel and blow a fan over it. now take a red hot
piece of steel and dunk it under water. which cools it faster? :-) water
cooled condensors run hot refrigerant through a tube that is inside another
tube running water through it. its very effiicient, effective, and quiet.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 03:48 PM
#3249
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"L.W. ("ßill") ------ III" <----------@***.net> wrote in message
news:42D96377.BD7D5AB@***.net...
> We have swap coolers out here in our deserts,
swamp coolers suck in most applications. totally different principle from a
water cooled condensor.
> but I can't imagine
> how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
> efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
> through it.
take a red hot piece of steel and blow a fan over it. now take a red hot
piece of steel and dunk it under water. which cools it faster? :-) water
cooled condensors run hot refrigerant through a tube that is inside another
tube running water through it. its very effiicient, effective, and quiet.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:42D96377.BD7D5AB@***.net...
> We have swap coolers out here in our deserts,
swamp coolers suck in most applications. totally different principle from a
water cooled condensor.
> but I can't imagine
> how water could be used to cool a refrigerant, how it could be more
> efficient than just a regular condenser cooled by air being blown
> through it.
take a red hot piece of steel and blow a fan over it. now take a red hot
piece of steel and dunk it under water. which cools it faster? :-) water
cooled condensors run hot refrigerant through a tube that is inside another
tube running water through it. its very effiicient, effective, and quiet.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 04:51 PM
#3250
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
I think out building was built in the late 50's/early 60's and these are
probably the originial units. There may have been a cooling tower at one
point, there is a frame on the roof that was a support for some kind of
machinery....maybe it toasted and the owner at the time didn't want to
replace it so he rigged a city water inlet and sewer dump...
The compressors are discontinued, we know, and we have one unit running on
only one compressor (normally there are 2) and it's not keeping up with
these hot humid days. he's going to try to retrofit a newer compressor into
it. He is a former employee of our old HVAC company who works for a
different one, but we subcontract out the work direct to him. He also
happens to be the husband of one of our staff...
"Sarge" <licker@lickersacademy.edu> wrote in message
news:dbb7m501phj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
> work on old York commercial A/C units?
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
> experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
> the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
> uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
> sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still
> cheaper
> than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
> to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but
> that's
> mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
> spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
>
> What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
> refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water
> tower
> to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
> tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must
> add
> chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are
> you
> will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be
> beneficial
> due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better
> Seer
> rating and less maintenance.
>
> I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available
> for
> some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring
> diagrams
> do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
> replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
>
> We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a
> contract
> to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the
> plant.
> It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
> thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
> million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production
> occurs
> when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but
> they
> just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
>
> The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
> but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
> knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
> vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
> by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes
> every
> unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
> outside.
>
> Sarge
>
>
probably the originial units. There may have been a cooling tower at one
point, there is a frame on the roof that was a support for some kind of
machinery....maybe it toasted and the owner at the time didn't want to
replace it so he rigged a city water inlet and sewer dump...
The compressors are discontinued, we know, and we have one unit running on
only one compressor (normally there are 2) and it's not keeping up with
these hot humid days. he's going to try to retrofit a newer compressor into
it. He is a former employee of our old HVAC company who works for a
different one, but we subcontract out the work direct to him. He also
happens to be the husband of one of our staff...
"Sarge" <licker@lickersacademy.edu> wrote in message
news:dbb7m501phj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> "Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
> work on old York commercial A/C units?
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
> experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
> the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
> uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
> sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still
> cheaper
> than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
> to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but
> that's
> mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
> spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
>
> What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
> refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water
> tower
> to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
> tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must
> add
> chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are
> you
> will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be
> beneficial
> due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better
> Seer
> rating and less maintenance.
>
> I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available
> for
> some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring
> diagrams
> do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
> replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
>
> We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a
> contract
> to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the
> plant.
> It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
> thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
> million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production
> occurs
> when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but
> they
> just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
>
> The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
> but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
> knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
> vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
> by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes
> every
> unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
> outside.
>
> Sarge
>
>