134a Refrigerant
07-16-2005 | 11:04 AM
#3231
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
rating and less maintenance.
I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
outside.
Sarge
work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
rating and less maintenance.
I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
outside.
Sarge
07-16-2005 | 11:04 AM
#3232
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
rating and less maintenance.
I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
outside.
Sarge
work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
rating and less maintenance.
I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
outside.
Sarge
07-16-2005 | 11:04 AM
#3233
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
rating and less maintenance.
I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
outside.
Sarge
work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."
What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
rating and less maintenance.
I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.
We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.
The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
outside.
Sarge
07-16-2005 | 03:30 PM
#3234
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:J7qdnSYAmfL1kUTfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
yes. the only area i dont consider myself qualified on yet is ground
source/geo thermal. i have field experience and can work through most
issues but have no formal training on them yet. ill be in the next course
offered by water furnace.
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger
a water cooled condensor. these days its more common in refrigeration
applications but i still see a lot of it in upper end homes (people who dont
want to hear a fan running and can afford to buy the water). while ground
source is more efficient, many dont have the yard for the loops so they run
water cooled.
> there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any experience on
> them.
thats what i love about this industry. if you apply yourself to learn you
can make a great honest living.
> our systems take water from the city line, uses it for the heat transfer
> from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the sewer.
really not uncommon, although i rarely see it anymore in hvac applications.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:J7qdnSYAmfL1kUTfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
yes. the only area i dont consider myself qualified on yet is ground
source/geo thermal. i have field experience and can work through most
issues but have no formal training on them yet. ill be in the next course
offered by water furnace.
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger
a water cooled condensor. these days its more common in refrigeration
applications but i still see a lot of it in upper end homes (people who dont
want to hear a fan running and can afford to buy the water). while ground
source is more efficient, many dont have the yard for the loops so they run
water cooled.
> there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any experience on
> them.
thats what i love about this industry. if you apply yourself to learn you
can make a great honest living.
> our systems take water from the city line, uses it for the heat transfer
> from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the sewer.
really not uncommon, although i rarely see it anymore in hvac applications.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 03:30 PM
#3235
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:J7qdnSYAmfL1kUTfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
yes. the only area i dont consider myself qualified on yet is ground
source/geo thermal. i have field experience and can work through most
issues but have no formal training on them yet. ill be in the next course
offered by water furnace.
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger
a water cooled condensor. these days its more common in refrigeration
applications but i still see a lot of it in upper end homes (people who dont
want to hear a fan running and can afford to buy the water). while ground
source is more efficient, many dont have the yard for the loops so they run
water cooled.
> there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any experience on
> them.
thats what i love about this industry. if you apply yourself to learn you
can make a great honest living.
> our systems take water from the city line, uses it for the heat transfer
> from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the sewer.
really not uncommon, although i rarely see it anymore in hvac applications.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:J7qdnSYAmfL1kUTfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
yes. the only area i dont consider myself qualified on yet is ground
source/geo thermal. i have field experience and can work through most
issues but have no formal training on them yet. ill be in the next course
offered by water furnace.
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger
a water cooled condensor. these days its more common in refrigeration
applications but i still see a lot of it in upper end homes (people who dont
want to hear a fan running and can afford to buy the water). while ground
source is more efficient, many dont have the yard for the loops so they run
water cooled.
> there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any experience on
> them.
thats what i love about this industry. if you apply yourself to learn you
can make a great honest living.
> our systems take water from the city line, uses it for the heat transfer
> from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the sewer.
really not uncommon, although i rarely see it anymore in hvac applications.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 03:30 PM
#3236
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:J7qdnSYAmfL1kUTfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
yes. the only area i dont consider myself qualified on yet is ground
source/geo thermal. i have field experience and can work through most
issues but have no formal training on them yet. ill be in the next course
offered by water furnace.
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger
a water cooled condensor. these days its more common in refrigeration
applications but i still see a lot of it in upper end homes (people who dont
want to hear a fan running and can afford to buy the water). while ground
source is more efficient, many dont have the yard for the loops so they run
water cooled.
> there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any experience on
> them.
thats what i love about this industry. if you apply yourself to learn you
can make a great honest living.
> our systems take water from the city line, uses it for the heat transfer
> from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the sewer.
really not uncommon, although i rarely see it anymore in hvac applications.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:J7qdnSYAmfL1kUTfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
yes. the only area i dont consider myself qualified on yet is ground
source/geo thermal. i have field experience and can work through most
issues but have no formal training on them yet. ill be in the next course
offered by water furnace.
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger
a water cooled condensor. these days its more common in refrigeration
applications but i still see a lot of it in upper end homes (people who dont
want to hear a fan running and can afford to buy the water). while ground
source is more efficient, many dont have the yard for the loops so they run
water cooled.
> there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any experience on
> them.
thats what i love about this industry. if you apply yourself to learn you
can make a great honest living.
> our systems take water from the city line, uses it for the heat transfer
> from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the sewer.
really not uncommon, although i rarely see it anymore in hvac applications.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 03:30 PM
#3237
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:J7qdnSYAmfL1kUTfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
yes. the only area i dont consider myself qualified on yet is ground
source/geo thermal. i have field experience and can work through most
issues but have no formal training on them yet. ill be in the next course
offered by water furnace.
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger
a water cooled condensor. these days its more common in refrigeration
applications but i still see a lot of it in upper end homes (people who dont
want to hear a fan running and can afford to buy the water). while ground
source is more efficient, many dont have the yard for the loops so they run
water cooled.
> there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any experience on
> them.
thats what i love about this industry. if you apply yourself to learn you
can make a great honest living.
> our systems take water from the city line, uses it for the heat transfer
> from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the sewer.
really not uncommon, although i rarely see it anymore in hvac applications.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:J7qdnSYAmfL1kUTfRVn-hw@comcast.com...
> Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
yes. the only area i dont consider myself qualified on yet is ground
source/geo thermal. i have field experience and can work through most
issues but have no formal training on them yet. ill be in the next course
offered by water furnace.
> Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
> exchanger
a water cooled condensor. these days its more common in refrigeration
applications but i still see a lot of it in upper end homes (people who dont
want to hear a fan running and can afford to buy the water). while ground
source is more efficient, many dont have the yard for the loops so they run
water cooled.
> there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any experience on
> them.
thats what i love about this industry. if you apply yourself to learn you
can make a great honest living.
> our systems take water from the city line, uses it for the heat transfer
> from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the sewer.
really not uncommon, although i rarely see it anymore in hvac applications.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 03:32 PM
#3238
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Sarge" <licker@lickersacademy.edu> wrote in message
news:dbb7m501phj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954.
some of those older units are amazing. i bet theyre still running when
equipment installed today is long since dead.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:dbb7m501phj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954.
some of those older units are amazing. i bet theyre still running when
equipment installed today is long since dead.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 03:32 PM
#3239
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Sarge" <licker@lickersacademy.edu> wrote in message
news:dbb7m501phj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954.
some of those older units are amazing. i bet theyre still running when
equipment installed today is long since dead.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:dbb7m501phj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954.
some of those older units are amazing. i bet theyre still running when
equipment installed today is long since dead.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
07-16-2005 | 03:32 PM
#3240
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: 134a Refrigerant
"Sarge" <licker@lickersacademy.edu> wrote in message
news:dbb7m501phj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954.
some of those older units are amazing. i bet theyre still running when
equipment installed today is long since dead.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
news:dbb7m501phj@enews4.newsguy.com...
> We have commercial AC units that
> are still running since they were put in 1954.
some of those older units are amazing. i bet theyre still running when
equipment installed today is long since dead.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com