"jeff" <jalowe44INVALID@hotmail.com.INVALID> wrote in message
news:m1WBe.65$N91.52@trnddc08...
> I didn't know one had to be an AC/HVAC/Refrigeration tech to understand
> chemistry.

i didnt call you on the chemistry. i called you on the terminology. stay
on track.


>> yeah no ----! refrigerant is a compound, a MIXTURE and when you add up
> all the components they are heavier than the individual components.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> did I see MIXTURE???

to clarify...look right before that where i said it is a compound. mixture
was added as further explanation but i clearly stated "refrigerant is a
compound".


> Do they recognize the word "Freon" and understand what you are referring
> to? If so, then the term was sufficient.

only to the ignorant.


> not all compounds are heavier/denser/have a higher specific gravity/ than
> their constituent elements, so you are wrong on two accounts.

show me where i ever said ALL compounds were heavier. im referencing
refrigerants.


> No, just a demonstration that reasonable people recognize freon-12 as a
> specific entity, and by in-large use the term generically.

and many people recognize a "gat" as a gun....doesnt make it proper.


> apparently anyone who thinks you are a dumbass must be a <spit> liberal...

nope. just you and your liberal buddy stephen. :-)


--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com

 

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:2MadnUC1nfpGsEXfRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
> So as you asserted that "refrigeration" has nothing to do with "HVAC,"

HVAC = Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning. HVAC/R = Heating Ventilation
Air Conditioning/Refrigeration

> why is "refrigerant" proper terminology for the industy?

the basic function of refrigerant is the same both in refrigeration and air
conditioning. the refrigerant picks up heat as it evaporates and releases
it elsewhere when it condenses. this is why a medium temp refrigerant is
still a refrigerant, its serving the same basic function. the industry
however, is entirely different. low temp applications require far more
critical design, componentry, and especially training. you take a guy with
20 years hvac experience and put him into a refrigeration situation and
virtually _nothing_ he's learned over the last 20 years will help him. the
industries are similar, yet entirely different.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com

 

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:2MadnUC1nfpGsEXfRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
> So as you asserted that "refrigeration" has nothing to do with "HVAC,"

HVAC = Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning. HVAC/R = Heating Ventilation
Air Conditioning/Refrigeration

> why is "refrigerant" proper terminology for the industy?

the basic function of refrigerant is the same both in refrigeration and air
conditioning. the refrigerant picks up heat as it evaporates and releases
it elsewhere when it condenses. this is why a medium temp refrigerant is
still a refrigerant, its serving the same basic function. the industry
however, is entirely different. low temp applications require far more
critical design, componentry, and especially training. you take a guy with
20 years hvac experience and put him into a refrigeration situation and
virtually _nothing_ he's learned over the last 20 years will help him. the
industries are similar, yet entirely different.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com

 

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:2MadnUC1nfpGsEXfRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
> So as you asserted that "refrigeration" has nothing to do with "HVAC,"

HVAC = Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning. HVAC/R = Heating Ventilation
Air Conditioning/Refrigeration

> why is "refrigerant" proper terminology for the industy?

the basic function of refrigerant is the same both in refrigeration and air
conditioning. the refrigerant picks up heat as it evaporates and releases
it elsewhere when it condenses. this is why a medium temp refrigerant is
still a refrigerant, its serving the same basic function. the industry
however, is entirely different. low temp applications require far more
critical design, componentry, and especially training. you take a guy with
20 years hvac experience and put him into a refrigeration situation and
virtually _nothing_ he's learned over the last 20 years will help him. the
industries are similar, yet entirely different.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com

 

"Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
news:2MadnUC1nfpGsEXfRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
> So as you asserted that "refrigeration" has nothing to do with "HVAC,"

HVAC = Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning. HVAC/R = Heating Ventilation
Air Conditioning/Refrigeration

> why is "refrigerant" proper terminology for the industy?

the basic function of refrigerant is the same both in refrigeration and air
conditioning. the refrigerant picks up heat as it evaporates and releases
it elsewhere when it condenses. this is why a medium temp refrigerant is
still a refrigerant, its serving the same basic function. the industry
however, is entirely different. low temp applications require far more
critical design, componentry, and especially training. you take a guy with
20 years hvac experience and put him into a refrigeration situation and
virtually _nothing_ he's learned over the last 20 years will help him. the
industries are similar, yet entirely different.

--
Nathan W. Collier
http://InlineDiesel.com
http://7SlotGrille.com
http://UtilityOffRoad.com
http://BighornRefrigeration.com

 

Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in....

"Nathan W. Collier" <MontanaJeeper@aol.com> wrote in message
news:11dgqh6192dsgb2@corp.supernews.com...
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:2MadnUC1nfpGsEXfRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
>> So as you asserted that "refrigeration" has nothing to do with "HVAC,"
>
> HVAC = Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning. HVAC/R = Heating Ventilation
> Air Conditioning/Refrigeration
>
>> why is "refrigerant" proper terminology for the industy?
>
> the basic function of refrigerant is the same both in refrigeration and
> air conditioning. the refrigerant picks up heat as it evaporates and
> releases it elsewhere when it condenses. this is why a medium temp
> refrigerant is still a refrigerant, its serving the same basic function.
> the industry however, is entirely different. low temp applications
> require far more critical design, componentry, and especially training.
> you take a guy with 20 years hvac experience and put him into a
> refrigeration situation and virtually _nothing_ he's learned over the last
> 20 years will help him. the industries are similar, yet entirely
> different.
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://InlineDiesel.com
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> http://BighornRefrigeration.com
>

 

Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in....

"Nathan W. Collier" <MontanaJeeper@aol.com> wrote in message
news:11dgqh6192dsgb2@corp.supernews.com...
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:2MadnUC1nfpGsEXfRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
>> So as you asserted that "refrigeration" has nothing to do with "HVAC,"
>
> HVAC = Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning. HVAC/R = Heating Ventilation
> Air Conditioning/Refrigeration
>
>> why is "refrigerant" proper terminology for the industy?
>
> the basic function of refrigerant is the same both in refrigeration and
> air conditioning. the refrigerant picks up heat as it evaporates and
> releases it elsewhere when it condenses. this is why a medium temp
> refrigerant is still a refrigerant, its serving the same basic function.
> the industry however, is entirely different. low temp applications
> require far more critical design, componentry, and especially training.
> you take a guy with 20 years hvac experience and put him into a
> refrigeration situation and virtually _nothing_ he's learned over the last
> 20 years will help him. the industries are similar, yet entirely
> different.
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://InlineDiesel.com
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> http://BighornRefrigeration.com
>

 

Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in....

"Nathan W. Collier" <MontanaJeeper@aol.com> wrote in message
news:11dgqh6192dsgb2@corp.supernews.com...
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:2MadnUC1nfpGsEXfRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
>> So as you asserted that "refrigeration" has nothing to do with "HVAC,"
>
> HVAC = Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning. HVAC/R = Heating Ventilation
> Air Conditioning/Refrigeration
>
>> why is "refrigerant" proper terminology for the industy?
>
> the basic function of refrigerant is the same both in refrigeration and
> air conditioning. the refrigerant picks up heat as it evaporates and
> releases it elsewhere when it condenses. this is why a medium temp
> refrigerant is still a refrigerant, its serving the same basic function.
> the industry however, is entirely different. low temp applications
> require far more critical design, componentry, and especially training.
> you take a guy with 20 years hvac experience and put him into a
> refrigeration situation and virtually _nothing_ he's learned over the last
> 20 years will help him. the industries are similar, yet entirely
> different.
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://InlineDiesel.com
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> http://BighornRefrigeration.com
>

 

Just curious, are you qualified to work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in....

"Nathan W. Collier" <MontanaJeeper@aol.com> wrote in message
news:11dgqh6192dsgb2@corp.supernews.com...
> "Matt Macchiarolo" <matt@nospamplease.com> wrote in message
> news:2MadnUC1nfpGsEXfRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
>> So as you asserted that "refrigeration" has nothing to do with "HVAC,"
>
> HVAC = Heating Ventilation Air Conditioning. HVAC/R = Heating Ventilation
> Air Conditioning/Refrigeration
>
>> why is "refrigerant" proper terminology for the industy?
>
> the basic function of refrigerant is the same both in refrigeration and
> air conditioning. the refrigerant picks up heat as it evaporates and
> releases it elsewhere when it condenses. this is why a medium temp
> refrigerant is still a refrigerant, its serving the same basic function.
> the industry however, is entirely different. low temp applications
> require far more critical design, componentry, and especially training.
> you take a guy with 20 years hvac experience and put him into a
> refrigeration situation and virtually _nothing_ he's learned over the last
> 20 years will help him. the industries are similar, yet entirely
> different.
>
> --
> Nathan W. Collier
> http://InlineDiesel.com
> http://7SlotGrille.com
> http://UtilityOffRoad.com
> http://BighornRefrigeration.com
>

 

"Matt Macchiarolo" wrote in message: "Just curious, are you qualified to
work on old York commercial A/C units?
Our building has these 40-year old units that use water as a heat
exchanger...there is only one guy I know who is old enough to have any
experience on them. We tried another repair company and they just screwed
the whole thing up. right now our systems take water from the city line,
uses it for the heat transfer from the refrigerant, then dumps in into the
sewer. As expensive as our water bills are in the summer, it' still cheaper
than replacing the units for a 24,000 squ ft building...we still might try
to install a closed-loop water system with radiators on the roof but that's
mucho dinero as well, and with the economy in MI the way it is we have to
spend every spare penny on promotion to get the customers in...."

What you describing is a unit that uses the water to condense the
refrigerant. Many commercial units of that size used a cooling water tower
to recycle the water back into the system. Water was only made up to the
tower as it evaporated. Other cost was associated with this. You must add
chemicals to the tower to maintain the algae levels and conductivity are you
will have a problem. Despite the cost of replacement, it may be beneficial
due to running more economical system over a given time period. Better Seer
rating and less maintenance.

I worked at a large industrial complex. We have commercial AC units that
are still running since they were put in 1954. Parts are not available for
some. They have been modified by the on site HVAC man. The wiring diagrams
do not mean crap because he rewired them to keep them running. They won't
replace the unit unless it cannot be fixed.

We also have large chillers on the plant. York Refrigeration has a contract
to repair these. Most use are newer then the AC units we have on the plant.
It comes down to simple economics. Replace a chiller that may cost 350
thousand dollars because it is better then having down time and loosing a
million dollars a day in lost production. However no lose production occurs
when a HVAC unit goes out. Office workers suffer due to the no AC but they
just moved their meetings to a building where the AC is working.

The HVAC repair company on the plant has switch 5 times since I been there
but they all hire the guy that has been working on the units due to his
knowledge of the equipment. He makes his on hours and they give him a
vehicle to come back and forth to work in. He is at work at 3 AM and home
by 1 AM Monday through Thursday. This man is unbelievable. He takes every
unit apart once a year and cleans the unit and waxes both inside and
outside.

Sarge